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| One players take on the Mitchell Report, Canseco, Clemens, records, looking back or going forward…. | 12.19.07 at 3:01 pm ET |
Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, Andy Petite, Todd Pratt, Gary Bennett, Paul Byrd, Dave Justice, Fernando Vina, Alex Cabrera, Brian Roberts, Lenny Dykstra, and many more. I know them, or have been friends with them, or know them through competing against them, and many more names on that list.
If you plan on writing some idiotic off the cuff rant slanted one way or another feel free to close the page now, it will be deleted. The opinion I am offering is mine and mine alone. Regardless of whether you view it as right or wrong it’s my opinion from what some might call an insiders perspective.
First off on the Senator himself. I’ll take the word of the many reputable people I have heard talk about Senator Mitchell and after reading the report I don’t think I’m wrong. People wanting to point to his apparent ‘extreme bias’ based on his position as a senior member of the Red Sox organization are on a wild goose chase. I would argue that most of the people calling his character into question are doing so because they can’t relate to someone possessing integrity and an unbiased opinion in his position. Meaning those people are saying “If it were me I’d be unfair and taint the report to read in favor of the Red Sox”. (The conspiracy theorists out there are having a field day with Senator Mitchells relationship with Boston and his integrity, I don’t have any issues with either and I think if you look at his reputation and record you can safely say this man has made a living out of doing some pretty damn good stuff.)
I disagree. I think that given the people that talked, the people that had to talk to make this stuff come to light, had far more bearing on the names and groups of players in question than the man leading the investigation. I would also argue that of all the people put ‘out there’ in this report his take on the Red Sox dealings with Brendon and Eric Gagne will have people up in arms much more than many other parts of this report.
Agree or disagree, if you start your assessment of this report with a biased opinion of Senator Mitchell and you question his integrity then I’d argue you’re not seeing this for what it is. But that’s your right.
As for the names on the list, and Lord knows there’s no shortage of those, I have feelings very strongly in some cases due to personal history, and opinions in many others. I’ve played, roomed and lived with some of these guys, and competed and gotten to know others.
To Andy Pettite, Brian Roberts, Gary Bennett, thank you. All three of these guys I know, Andy not very much, but the other two I know very well. I played a few years with Gary, worked out at API and competed with Brian. Gary Bennett is a guy who I always respected because I never figured him as a guy that would be able to play as long as he has. He was always a hard worker and a nice guy and I always enjoyed throwing to him because he cared about his game calling skills. He’s made a nice career for himself and my hope is that it was more through his hard work and effort than through cheating, either way he’s a friend of mine and always will be. Brian Roberts worked as hard as anyone I’ve ever been around. Not to mention he’s about as kind and giving as anyone you’ll ever meet. I know how regretful he is and I know that this mistake is not indicative of his choice making in life. He screwed up, knows he screwed up and admitted it. I’ve always had huge amounts of respect for Andy Pettite, as a competitor and as a person. Someone who’s made his beliefs as a Christian very public and always been the big game pitcher as well. He says he did this one time to recover from an injury, I believe him.
What does all of this mean? As it pertains to this report it means absolutely nothing. These three guys were man enough to admit they were caught, made a huge mistake, and asked for forgiveness. There will be many who say they only admitted what they did because they were caught, which is probably true in every case, but the fact of the matter is that when you look at how many names are now out there, very few have chosen to own up to the mistake and take responsibility. To dissect the manner of their apologies, or try and discern intent is irrelevant to me. I know all three guys are good people. The world is full of good to great people that have made mistakes of this magnitude or worse. I’ll argue that this mistake in many cases doesn’t define the people I know, but merely points to another fact of our lives that people continually dismiss.
We’re human, we make mistakes, some bigger than you, some smaller, but at the end of the day it’s what makes us human. These guys made mistakes and I do mean mistakes. They didn’t accidentally do this, this was a conscious decision with far reaching implications and they should be held accountable. Problem is the fans version of accountable is completely dependent on their opinion of the player in question. If you are a fan then all is forgiven, or there is much less vitriol than you might have for other names mentioned.
Bottom line is you will act and react based on your opinions of these players. Opinions you’ve formed based on media coverage given by the very same people now reporting this story. Short of actually meeting any of these players the only things you know about them are what’s been reported to you via television or newspapers over their careers. You can’t know in any depth how good or bad any of these guys are. You know their home to first times, their OBP, WHIP, and you know some of them are ‘gamers’, but as people you can’t know what they are really like can you? Does that really matter though? That’s for you to decide and I am sure their inclusion in this report has significant impact on your opinions of them as players and as people, how can it not.
Jose Canseco? Not sure where to start. I would offer that there is a small amount of personal history on my end. Back in the early 90’s Jose and I were represented by a firm called Beverly Hills Sports Council. Jose ran a celebrity softball game in Miami after the huge hurricane and I had a chance to spend some time the evening before the event with him. My impressions were that he was an extremely shy guy, incredibly nice and caring. He was very much into the Miami community and giving back as well.
About 15 years later I am not sure those things don’t still ring true, but what’s happened over the past few years has made me think other things about him. I heard him on WEEI this past weekend and he was lying. He was stating that I lied in front of Congress and that I was reprimanded afterwards. Neither of those is true. I have stated many times before, and since, that I was called before Congress, subpoenaed actually, based on a comment I made to a sports illustrated writer a few years before about my thoughts on the % of players using PED’s in MLB. Based on 2-3 quotes I made, Congress felt compelled to call me to the meeting to offer an ‘anti-steroids’ opinion.
Please remember this. At a Congressional hearing you are sworn in and any and everything you say can be used for future actions against you or someone else unless you are granted immunity, even with immunity if you lie you lose that right. Everything I had as an opinion to that point, and for the most part now, was thought, opinion, conjecture. Having to this day never seen anyone inject steroids or HGH, I was in no position to speculate, nor would I. To even mention a name as someone I ‘thought’ was using, or do anything of that sort would amount to defamation of character of people I was guessing may have used. I couldn’t do that, others can and have but I could not.
As far a Jose goes, my opinion on what he’s done is, I guess, rather convoluted. On one hand Jose lied about every aspect of his professional career as a player. His entire career, all of it, is a sham. He never belonged in the big leagues and anything he ever did in the major leagues is a hoax. He made it clear that he would not have been the player he was had he not cheated. His statistics should be erased, his MVP given to the runner up and he should go down as the guy who broke the silence on a horrible period of the game, period. He was never in his life a major league player.
The problem I have, and the opinion I have, is based on the fact that he lied his entire career, every single day of it. He cheated his entire career, and lied about it. He spent his entire career on the record claiming he didn’t use PEDs, yet only when his life was in shambles and only when it served Jose Canseco the most, did he ‘come clean’. Only then did he become this bastion of truth and honesty. Is that not the scam of scams? He made his hundred million or so, and when he was no longer good enough to compete up here, only when cheating stopped being enough to keep him competitive, only then did he scream ‘blackballed” and vow to get his revenge. Only then did he tell the truth, or his version of the truth.
Which in the end gets us here. Say what you want about Jose, and there are things I disagree with and think he’s wrong about, but I have yet to find someone he’s named who’s NOT been guilty or tried to clear their name. The view I have on that is maybe a bit too simplistic but I look at it like this. If Jose had named me in his book, it would have taken about 20 minutes for me to issue a press release vehemently denying the allegations, which would have been as closely followed as possible by as large a legal action as I could have possibly taken to sue for slander, libel, defamation of character and anything else I’d have been able to legally do. It’s either that, or I’m guilty. There is no gray area here, you either did, or you didn’t and Jose, up through today, hasn’t called out anyone that’s sued his ass off for false representation, slander, libel or whatever you would do if someone said something like this about you, that you didn’t do.
So regardless of what you might think about him he has broken the flood gates on a topic that went unspoken on for far too long. The amount of damage done to the sport will be far reaching and I don’t know that we’ll ever truly know how bad it is until people a few generations from now are looking back on this era.
This past week he made a comment publicly that he was ’shocked’ that Alex Rodriguez was not mentioned in the Mitchell report? Based on what he has said and done he was clearly saying to me that he has personal knowledge of Alex as it relates to PED’s? How can he do that? Are we at a place where people are ok with names being thrown out this callously is ok? I hope like hell Alex stops anyone from mentioning his name as it relates to this and legally shuts up Jose from mentioning his name anymore as it relates to steroids or PEDs.
Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds. I know both of these men. Roger had a profound effect on my career from a very early point. His ‘undressing’ of me and lecture were a major turning point. I’ve always respected his career accomplishments and regarded him as the greatest pitcher to ever play the game. Now I, like every other Yankee, Clemens fan am faced with a dilemma. The two men that fingered multiple players, from my understanding, both testified with immunity, but only if they told the truth. So these guys had every reason in the world to NOT lie. That doesn’t mean they didn’t, but there is an immense amount of incentive for them to NOT lie when they gave their depositions because lying would have seen them open to legal actions beyond what they are already facing. So the question to me then becomes this. It’s no mystery that Roger and Andy are as close as any two teammates I know of. Andy makes no bones about Rogers influence in his career. Their personal trainer, the trainer Roger took to Toronto, then to NY, has admitted to administering PED’s to both men. Andy has admitted he did, and that it was a mistake and he never did it again. Roger has denied every allegation brought to the table. So as a fan my thought is that Roger will find a way in short order to organize a legal team to guarantee a retraction of the allegations made, a public apology is made, and his name is completely cleared. If he doesn’t do that then there aren’t many options as a fan for me other than to believe his career 192 wins and 3 Cy Youngs he won prior to 1997 were the end. From that point on the numbers were attained through using PED’s. Just like I stated about Jose, if that is the case with Roger, the 4 Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations.
I met Barry Bonds in the early 90s. Like Jose, Barry was represented by Beverly Hills Sports Council and I was invited to a dinner along with Gary Sheffield to celebrate Barry’s 2nd or 3rd MVP. By the way that was just about the only time I’ve ever interacted with Sheff and he was the kindest, most polite guy I had ever met. Incredibly well spoken and incredibly respectful and kind. That was where I first met Barry. We had a chance to talk a bit but I listened much more than I spoke (my how times have changed). I obviously respected the player, who wouldn’t? That next year we were playing against SF and he hit a home run in the bottom of the 9th inning off of me to tie a game (1993), and stood at home plate for about 3 days. I made a few comments and he did his thing. I stopped being much of a fan at that point. Over the past 13 or so years the rest of my opinion of Barry has been formed, fairly or unfairly, by playing with and talking to former teammates, clubhouse guys and other people in the game, as well as competing against him. Barry is pretty much the guy that’s been represented by the media as a whole in my opinion. Take that for whatever it’s worth. The big difference in where we are now, and I think in the court of public opinion, is that many things have happened in the past few years that have presented opportunities for him to ‘clear his name’ (no pun intended), and he hasn’t.
Someone wrote a book about Barry which outlined a ton of things that Barry supposedly did, and nothing happened. Barry instituted legal action to bar the publishers of the book from profiting from sales. Nothing about the allegations in the book, nothing, just tried to stop them from making money. Barry testified, with immunity, in front of a Grand Jury. In the opinion of that Grand Jury Barry lied under oath no less than 4 times and is now facing indictment. Barry’s personal trainer has gone to jail for failure to testify in the Grand Jury proceedings. My question is, if you did nothing wrong, and know of no crime being committed, why would you have to go to jail? What information would you possess that would land you in jail for failure to disclose? If you are innocent, and no one is hiding anything, why is anyone going to jail? More importantly to me, how good of a friend would I be if I allowed someone I considered to be my friend to go to jail for me? What does that say about me? What does that say about my guilt/innocence? If I haven’t committed a crime why would anyone I am friends with have to go to jail for failure to answer questions about me or my activities?
It may not be that simple, or I might just be naive and stupid. But if I am being called in front of a grand jury to give testimony, and I am given total immunity from prosecution as long as I tell the truth, why would anything beyond my testimony be in discussion after I testified? If lying meant jail time and losing my life, and family, is there anything short of the safety and health of my family that would be worth that price? For me I’d have to say no.
This could all be crap in the end, Barry could be totally innocent of all charges of perjury and his relationship to Greg Anderson, Victor Conte and Balco, and all the evidence found against him could be false.
Whatever happens now though, can you separate what Barry is accused of from what Roger is accused of? If they are both found not guilty cool, if not then they are one in the same no?
If neither of those things happen, and both of these men end up being caught, what does that say about this game, us as athletes and the future of the sport and our place in it? The greatest pitcher and greatest hitter of all time are currently both being implicated, one is being prosecuted, for events surrounding and involving the use of performance enhancing drugs. That sucks.
Your opinions will have all personal bias, they have to, it’s what humans do. Fans in NY will continue to rant and scream about the fact that there are multiple Yankees in this report given by a member of the Red Sox organization. There are Bonds fans railing on Roger now, he needs to be vilified the same way Barry has been.
I don’t know the answers to any of this beyond what I feel. The sport needs fixing. It’s become clear that testing has to involve an outside party at some point and that the MLBPA and MLB need to find common ground on testing that allows investigation for probable cause instead of only relying on positive tests.
Scream all you want about the testing program in MLB but there isn’t a test in existence that can identify the the presence of HGH with any amount of accuracy. My understanding of the NFL Program is that a player must test at 6 times the normal level of HGH in their system to be a positive. I don’t know the details, I just know testing is woefully inadequate in catching people that use it. The use of Steroids in the game is significantly lower now than it was. I believe that is a combination of a good thing and a bad thing. I think testing truly has reduced the amount of people that use, but I also think that Senator Mitchell nailed it when he said that there has been a significant shift from oil based to water based drugs in the past few years. Every expert I have heard speak on testing has talked about the immense difficulties in keeping up with the cheaters, who are in a constant race to find the new and better thing that takes months for testers to even discover, and even longer to create tests to reveal.
So there is my long winded opinion. It’s only mine, so don’t put words in anyone else’s mouth for me. This stuff is not fact, it’s what I think and feel, and I don’t speak for any other players either. I have no desire to talk to the media about this issue beyond this post. Bottom line for me is that your beliefs and perceptions are going to be shaped on your opinions of the players before this report was issued, and most people are not or do not choose to forgive or be flexible with players they don’t know or don’t like, but openly embrace ‘their guy’ for coming clean or worse yet “there is no way he is guilty’. No one named in Jose’s book that he claims has used has taken the effort or made the commitment to clear their names, and with the exception of Dave Justice, Roger Clemens, every person named in the Mitchell Report has either already been caught, or admitted to using since the report was issued. I am hoping that every person that was named and did use admits to it, admits it was a mistake (where applicable), and asks for forgiveness (if they want it) and moves on.
At the same time I pray that ANYONE in this report that is innocent, steps up and clears their names, now, today. No one has, and through today no one has done anything but issue a crafted statement in someone else’s words denying their guilt or association in any of this.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I don’t know enough about the issue to make a comment either way about who’s using, has used, who’s guilty or not. I wasn’t there when all this stuff went down, and neither was anyone else who is not connected to MLB. I’m just a fan.
Once again, Curt, you spoke from your own experiences and your own perspective in the unique position you are in. You would know more than any of us about what’s what. You stated your views with candor and knowledge, and I respect that as much as anything you do on the pitcher’s mound.
–Stef
(RedSox fan in Soonerland)
December 19th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
You want Baseball to go around re distributing MVP’s and Cy youngs. That would be the single biggest disaster in the history of the sport, listenign to people complaining about awards years ago. Who says the guy who came in 2nd didn’t take juice??? Why should we reward players who just plain didn’t get caught. Barry Bonds would take you deep long before he took steroids. If Clemens didn’t take anything, he would still be a first ballot hall of famer. We cannt play judge and jury on a case by case basis. Allow both players in the hall, and historians will always understand the situation surrounding the era. I think some fans think you just want to sneak in the HOF’s back door, based on your “charachter”. Charachter has nothing to do with the HOF in my book, I wish every idiot sportswriter had their every mistake in the papers.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Very enlightening, Curt. I agree with you pretty much across the board and I appreciate your opinions on this issue.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Curt
Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion.
// mdr
December 19th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Curt:
Where are the agents in all of this mess? Besides Attorney-Client privilege, how come more of the media isn’t rolling over on agents, who stood to benefit greatly from the steroid scandal, yet are exposed the least. I mean does anyone really believe that Dennis Gilbert not only had Jose’s pharmacist on speed dial, but gave that number to all of the prospects he represented in their farm system for instance? Nobody is talking about these guys, who by and large have taken shall we say a certain casual ethical approach to their body of work over the years?
David (www.davidlstern.com)
December 19th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
jeez curt,
you gotta keep these blogs shorter or i might get caught reading them while at work. good one though. and yeah, it was a little nice to see no (current) bosox’s names and a couple yanks’. but that’s just to spite them cause of the whole rival thing. in all honesty, i blame their paychecks. nothing will make a man put a needle in his but like a multi million dollar deal. anyways, good blog. but please, remember, short, short, short…now i have to go an try to tell my boss about your blog and i don’t think i can remember everything you said.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Boy, you sure do love to give your opinion. This could have been alot shorter. Thats 20 minutes I’ll never get back.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Curt-
easy to understand the conflict for the players involved.
From the reading of the Mitchell report, Game of Shadows and all the coverage in between, it’s pretty clear that MLB, the MLBPA and the community in general was pretty protective of PED use for the last couple of decades. Hell, there was a suggestion in the Mitchell report that some officials were pratically encouraging it. Given everyone’s economic incentives, its easy to understand why they were so protective.
Clemens and Bonds are officially footnotes. They won’t be playing baseball anymore. It will be interesting to see what the end result will be for the HOF and their legacies, but it’s the past.
I really hope the lesson learned here is that that culture has to change. I understand why the players are generally protective of the clubhouse and each other, but I hope they also understand that they’ve allowed themselves collectively to be tainted, and that there is much work to do to regain the trust of the public.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
As usual, you have written up another great one. Roger Clemens has been my idol for the past 20 years and I am truly disappointed to see his name in the report. I do agree that the McNamee guy had no reason to lie and risk lengthy prison time so I have no choice right now to believe that what he says about Roger is true especially given the fact that Andy has stepped up and admitted his guilt. I really hope he does come out and prove that he did not cheat.
Thanks for the entertainment Curt. Looking forward to a great 2008 season for you.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Curt, very well said. I think you represent how most people would look at these gentlemen and read their actions. Thank You for once again looking at things from the normal persons perspective. I look forward to reading your blog, keep up the great work. Also thank you for being a spokesperson for Senator Mccain, a true american like yourself.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Fantastic post. I agree with 100% of it. If the bloated heads and inflated late career numbers weren’t enough proof, the detailed reports about Clemens usage is the final proof. I don’t see anyway he can prove his innocence. Should be interesting to see what actions he does or doesn’t take.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Curt,
Thanks again for weighing in. I know you sometimes take a lot of heat for speaking your mind, but I can’t thank you enough for cutting through the BS and breaking it down to the bottom line.
I find you to be honest and forthright man, and I attribute it to your being a Christian. I myself am an agnostic, but religious differences aside, I see you as a guy trying to live your life morally and ethically, and when you speak I listen.
Sometimes the truth being spoken is more important than being diplomatic or politically correct, and it’s bound to piss people off.
It;s dirty job, but someone’s got to do it!
So keep speaking the truth. I really believe in a world as full of crap as this one people like you are truly dong God’s work. (If there is one…)
December 19th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Thanks for the post. It really is great to hear it from someone who does have an insiders perspective- I am in complete agreement with your statement:
“At the same time I pray that ANYONE in this report that is innocent, steps up and clears their names, now, today.”
Thanks again and Merry Christmas Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Funny, as a fan of baseball since I was 5 years old and started collecting baseball cards (36 years ago), I am disappointed by the juicers.
But, I’m even more disappointed by the front office people who either knowingly or with great suspicion acquired juicers through trade or free agency.
Yes, that means you Theo. We have the emails, and it isn’t pretty, kid. You can’t wag your finger at the juicers, then go out and get them (and keep your integrity).
Thanks for your insights, Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
As a Yankee fan (put away the pitchforks, please) and a new father, I struggle with how I’m going to introduce my son to the game. While we adults can see these players as fallible humans, it’s in a child’s nature to idolize them. To see Andy Pettite’s name was especially disturbing as he was one of my favorite players — not least because of his seeming off-the-field integrity. And while I believe him when he says he only used briefly to recover from an injury, he’s no longer the paragon of virtue I can point out to my son.
When it comes down to it, if my son asks if there are any true heroes out there, I’ll have to point to Curt. “He beat us son, but he beat us fair and square.”
December 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Congrats on a VERY thoughtful and fair evaluation of the current situation.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Curt
Great post! I wish more athletes spoke up too. I, for one, am a baseball fan & these guys mentioned have ruined the game for me. Doesnt mean I wont go to games or watch on the dish, but in the back of my mind, I will be wondering whether the athletes are clean & drug free.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
You make many good points, and your openness and honesty is admirable. However–and by all means correct me if I’m wrong–you seem to be approaching the Mitchell report from a stance of “guilty until proven innocent.” Alex Rodriguez’ case is a good example. Canseco brought a lot the discussion table and he should get credit for that, but you pointed out yourself that he has no problem lying when it suits him, and the more he talks, the less credibility he has. Why should Rodriguez be up in arms about an unsubstantiated remark made by a man with a history of lying? To me, his inaction doesn’t indicate guilt; it indicates that he doesn’t take Canseco seriously. And why should he?
Do I believe Barry Bonds used PEDs? Yes. Do I believe Roger Clemens used them as well? Probably. But we have a legal policy of “innocent until proven guilty” in this country, and thank goodness for it. I can’t justify an action as drastic as altering or erasing their career numbers unless their cheating can be proven by a money trail, a reliable test, or a series of testimonies under oath in a court of law. Otherwise, we are, in principle, sanctioning disciplinary action against ANY United States citizen based on accusations alone, and that makes me very, very uncomfortable. It goes beyond the Mitchell report, and beyond baseball. It’s an issue that affects all of us, regardless of our celebrity, wealth, or achievements. Innocent until proven guilty? Yes, please, with a bit of habeus corpus on the side, if you will.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Bless you, Curt,
You have very eloquently stated what any true fan of the game of baseball is feeling right now. What has happened is sad for the players, their families and all fans of the game. MLB and the MLBPA have been given an opportunity to try and bring the game back to the people. Here’s hoping they do the right thing.
In the mean time, thanks for giving us your opinion and being willing to take the heat which I’m sure some people will feel is their right to send your way. You are an honorable man, Curt Schilling, and I’m proud to have you a part of New England.
Merry Christmas!
Margaret
December 19th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Curt -
Thanks, as always, for the insights you bring to events both on and off the field.
Your analysis of Canseco and his motives were spot on, and it was good to hear that Sheff may not be the villain off the field that we Sox fans have made him out to be on it.
Congrats on 2007, and best wishes to you, your family, and the Boston Red Sox in 2008.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Wow. So, I have to say, that I agree with everything you say in here — most esp. with those like Pettite apologizing and moving on.
Funny thing is, I didn’t give much thought to the potential conflict of interest — maybe because I know if that was ME in that role, I’d probably scrutinize the organization I was involved with the most, just to be able to stand tall and face people head on when that accusation came up. It’s an ethics and character call I suppose.
You totally hit it on the head of how I personally feel about Conseco. He’s the guy that blew it wide open; but as far as baseball goes? In my opinion, Barry Bonds falls in that same category. While I don’t know him personally (clearly!), I perceive him as being a liar, a cheat and a thief. No integrity, no ethics. That’s not quite All American or Apple Pie now, is it?
My dad always told me when I was growing up – when you die, all you leave behind is your name. You’re only as good as your name. Some people just don’t care about something so simple, and so basic as having integrity.
Thanks for sharing with us.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Well said and thanks for sharing your thoughts. The whole thing is just sad and I hope that this will only make baseball better in the long run. I’m a fan of baseball since childhood and I hate to see the game sullied this way.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Wow, all I can say is well spoken (or well-blogged), Curt!
December 19th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
I don’t know whether, in that situation, I would have responded to the Canseco book. I might have simply chalked it up to a failed human being trying to spread as much dirt has he could and felt that by suing, I was giving him an additional forum and ultimately driving up sales of his book as well as maintaining his position in the spotlight.
The Mitchell report is different. It’s not a “tell-all” gossipy expose with a celebrity author feel to it, it’s a scholarly research work with substantiated claims. I think you’re right, I think the people who are named yet innocent must respond or be presumed in the court of public opinion to be guilty.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Thanks for your insider perspective. This whole fiasco has been very disapointing. As a baseball fan I will be glad when the steroid era is over. Not just because of the records and what not, but because like it or not Major League Players are viewed as role models by children. I’ve already had to discuss PED’s with my 10 year old son attempt to explain why some of his “heroes” cheated….a tough conversation. The one good thing about this whole thing is that i was able to use this conversation as a good way to talk about the dangers of doing drugs in general. I also want to say I agree with you about Awards going to the runners up provided they did not cheat. In addition I hope that Hall of Fame voters will take into consideration the players who competed in the Steroid Era without the use of PED’s. There will be some “borderline” players who played honesty and fairly and were at a competitive disadvantage. Their stats should also be viewed in that perspective.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Thanks for this. In almost every case there will be a witness whose character will be challenged. Not that such people are incapable of lying, but in PEDs cases it will be pretty hard to find witnesses who aren’t kind of creepy. PEDs are distributed through shady underground networks, and if you’re going to find the truth, you have to listen to shady, underground network distributor types.
If people want to know where this is going, search the last ten years of articles about professional cycling. There it took several rounds of crackdowns for an athlete-culture that grew accustomed to PEDs to change its mind… things got worse before they got better. But things also got better before anyone began to notice the change. Baseball should have an even easier time cleaning up, since it’s all under a single, top-down administration, not spread across dozens of countries and organizations. We can hope.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Curt you are right. We are all human. Mistakes are made and the innocent should not be blamed and yes there are ones that have committed mistakes. It is understandable to make mistakes, especially in our day and age where society wants everything above and beyond. Everything has to be over the top and out of this world in order for it to be interesting. What happened to value and character? What happened to the simple life and no I’m not referring to the reality series the Nicole and Paris appeared on. This is why I am in love with baseball. It’s simple and old fashioned. One thing that does upset me in baseball is pressure that is place on the athletes to have to be the best. I believe that we all (including mangers, the franchise, the owners, and the fans) sometimes forget that you guys are human just like everyone else. One more thing I completely agree with you on the whole “extreme bias”.. people will believe what they want to and I think that this nation as a whole needs a little prayer, honesty, and forgiveness. People need to stop portraying athletics and celebrities as gods! You guys aren’t!!!
December 19th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Curt,
No BS, straight to the point. Your comments are a good read.
Clemens has never been a people person. When he was here in Boston, he was standoffish and many times just rude to folks. It don’t surprise me that he may have taken something. And it don’t surprise me that he will NOT take responsibilty for his actions. He never has……
December 19th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Hey Curt,
Thanks as ever for the blog, and for this post. It’s a great read when it’s about your changeup not working in the second inning, and all the more so when it’s about bigger events like this. (Not to suggest your changeup isn’t big.)
A couple of questions that I hope haven’t been asked and answered already:
1) What’s is the reaction to seeing competitors from other teams, and I guess I mean especially the Yankees, caught up in stuff like this? I’m sure you know that most Red Sox fans are pretty much swimming in schadenfreude right now, but you clearly have a different relation to Pettitte than we do. Likewise, a lot of fans don’t like Barry Bonds and think he’s a cheater, but we never had to pitch to the guy. Does seeing a guy’s name in the Mitchell report feel different if he took you deep a couple of times?
2) Frank Thomas, I think, did a brave thing by volunteering to talk to Mitchell about steroids because he thinks they’re such a blight on the game, and I’m not the only Sox fan who thought that you would have, too. Apologies if you’ve already talked about this, but: Why not?
Thanks!
December 19th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Mr.Schilling,
I grew up near Boston, love Roger Clemens, after reading all of the articles regarding him and PED’s, I find it amazing how easily we are pulled around by our ears from the media. I have never thought Roger would take steroids, maybe I don’t want to think he has, but I really do not understand how the testimony of a man(if you will) whom is facing VERY serious charges has a credibility. There has to be someone other than I that thinks maybe he felt pressure to come up with names. Also, Andy did state that he used HGH, never has Andy stated he got them from his trainer. I will stand by Roger no matter what, you guys have been cheating since the game was invented. I mean that generally. Oh, and I liked you until you went to the Sox. Also, I really enjoyed reading what you have to say on the matter. Thanks
December 19th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Should have read what I wrote before posting it too. Sorry for the poor grammer.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Nice to hear your opinion – a honest opinion. I still think that not everyone is being treated the same – Roger Clements hasn’t seen a thousandth of what Barry has been subjected to and if the report is accurate, Roger is no different to Barry ..
However, leaving individuals aside, the game needs major reforms – i think the commissioner needs to set a Truth commission, where all players can come in and clear their record. This will help uncover as much information on how players avoided steriod detection and make it dificult for abusers to stay ahead of the curve!
December 19th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
“To even mention a name as someone I ‘thought’ was using, or do anything of that sort would amount to defamation of character of people I was guessing may have used. I couldn’t do that, others can and have but I could not.”"
Isn’t that what you did regarding Barry Bonds? hmmmm
December 19th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
curt i agree with everthing you not only wrote on your blog but your interview on WEEI the other morning.Jose canseco is an steriod using whiney hypocritical SOB whose career ended because he used the juice to enhance his career.I have read parts of the mitchell report and if roger clemens is clean as he claims why doesnt he just hire an independent polygraph examiner?make the results public either way and if clemens truly has nothing to hide why isnt he suing anyone?i watched jim romes show on espn today and he had john smoltz on.I know you know john well and respect him and smoltz said if he was named in the report and knew he was innocent someone would be hearing from his lawyers.Its been an week now and roger had his mouthpieces issue his so called statement because we all know that roger isnt the sharpest knife in the draw.In the mitchell report two names i was surprised to not hear listed were nomar and gabe kapler.i say this because i remember the front page picture of nomar on SI without ans shirt on looking totally buffed and gabe always looked like an bodybuilding freak and those people are known juice users.having said that i am glad neither was in that report but if they had been I wouldnt have been surprised.merry christmas to you and your family.I already got my world series dvd and have watched only about an dozen times already.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
The last time I looked at the Constitution EVERYONE is presumed innocent until proved otherwise in a court of law. EVERYONE has the right to due process unless they waive that right. In the media however, SELECT ONES are portrayed as guilty until they come clean somehow to the media’s liking or…. in a court of law at which time the media may (or may not) place an obscure correction somewhere other than the headlines that they were wrong. (how about the OJ Simpson case? Enough media ranting). The problem with a report like this is that the data collected are limited and inconclusive and should be handled as such by rational thinking folks. The problem is here that it’s NEWS and it SELLS papers, airtime, interntet commercials etc. (there I go again bashing the media…sorry :<)
Now there’s a lot to be said for your statement regarding a rebuttal immediately, however there is a lot of room for the arguement waiting untill you have your ducks in a row to answer (especially if you’re not very comfortable with making public statements. My dad told me “if you tell a lie you have to remember everything you ever said to anyone so you can keep things straight. If you tell the truth you don’t’ have to remember anything.” ) after a lawyer sifts through it so you can protect yourself. (I realize that speaking from the heart can be easily misunderstood especially if there’s a story in it… owwww. sorry media bashing again). At any rate the whole thing stinks……
As much as I would like to think otherwise MLB players are entertainers and making sure that they perform at the best level that they can has a cost to it that’s for sure…. The problem with baseball is that all the individual records that are attained are not “apples to apples” across the ages based on a multitude of variables. (changes to the ball, mound height and a host of other things) Performance Enhancing Medications are one of those things and should be treated as such.
If MLB cracks down hard on PEM’s and does it’s due dilligence, roots out the problems and enforces it across the board… then it’s a good thing. If it turns a blind eye to some and goes hard after others it’s a bad thing.
At any rate the cat is out of the bag and I hope that some sort of sanity prevails..
Please forgive my spelling errors.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Curt,
I often wonder about you and your statistics. I know you’re one of the leaders in serving up HRs to Barry (of course, you were in the NL West and a starter for many years with him). I wonder what your numbers would look like if we substracted even him! It sounds like he already cost you a few wins and he’s the tip of the iceberg.
The funny thing is that you’re right about forgiveness. If Barry and Clemens got together and toured the country going high school to high school talking about how great they were but were then motivated to extend it with the steroids, and how foolish and terrible it was – how it changed them, their personalities and discreditted their accomplishments and why kids shouldn’t do it themselves, I think our country would forgive and the “character clause” in HOF voter’s mind would swing in their favor. These guys are basically Mays/Mantle or Drysdale/Koufax without the juice, but they wanted to be Ruth/Aaron or Young/Ryan. They were still top 5 players in their positions of all time without it.
As you said on WEEI, these guys have sent a message to millions (along with the many other juicers) that drugs can make your abilities enough to make you a millionaire. Barry and Roger have enough money to do this (take time to tour the country making their amends). Heck, Roger supposedly wants to mentor young players in his Astros role. What’s a better way to do this?
As a Curt Schilling fan, I wonder: how big would your statistics be if everybody else wasn’t juicing? Or if you had juiced, would your ankle have healed faster? Would you have that extra 7 mph that you believe you can get through very strict workouts and diet this offseason faster? Or would you have never lost it? What about Pedro? He has to learn to pitch without velocity too? Would he have comeback from his rehab faster if he had been juicing to continue to pile up his statistics?
Also, a non-rhetorical question: why does everybody keep saying, “we can’t delete the statistics!” Please explain why, other than, “it changes the nature of the game. We need to put it in the past.”
I believe you ARE a HOFer right now, and with the Mitchell report out, I definitely believe you are.
However, if you really want the HOF for yourself or for Shonda and your kids, here’s what I suggest you do: Contract a lab to take samples from you, blood and urine, every two weeks this season and have them frozen. 10 years from now when the tests are out that CAN find HGH and every other drug, show them that you won 20 games as a 41 y/o completely clean in an era of garbage. I know this is drastic with the samples, but I have faith that the rest of the plan you can do with your natural talent.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
sorry, quick amendment – by “everybody keep saying, ‘we can’t delete statistics . . . ‘ ” I meant everybody other than Curt, who obviously does believe we can delete the statistics
December 19th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Curt,
It took a bit to get your message out, but I think you are right. As a fan, you have no idea of the character, or personal makeup of a player unless you know them personally. I do know a player personally (I will not mention his name, as it has no bearing), and I know he is not a user, nor would ever do that type of thing. The average fan can not understand the life a ball player has. There are enormous amounts of pressure to produce, there are the charity events, signings and public appearances, etc… What I have learned is to respect that person’s space. The average fan thinks earning a lot of money entitles them to basically harass any player (in the media or in person). They just don’t get it
And exactly as you said it, if you are innocent, then bring the full brunt of the law to bear against any accusations. That’s what I would do.
Lastly, Senator Mitchell is an honorable person, and one who can not be touched when it comes to integrity. Any “fan” who says the report is biased, is not in touch with reality.
VJ in Okinawa
December 19th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Look, the only evidence cited against Clemens are allegations from one McNamee who has previously lied to federal investigators and is under indictment. So when Curt Schilling says Roger needs to refute the allegations or be judged a user (and face the consequences that flow from that), my feeling is he already has, and really needs to do nothing more. There are no checks, records, or any other type of corroborating evidence. So why should Clemens be required to do or say anything more, other than to say that McNamee is a liar. In other words, how do you prove a negative? Or how would Roger Clemens prove he did not take steroids?
I am no great fan of Roger Clemens. He left us in the “twilight of his career” and proceeded to win 4 Cy’s and 2 WS – WITH THE YANKEES. However, he cleaned up his act and became an ambassador of the game. I find it incredible that someone’s reputation can be dragged through the mud based solely on the statements of an indicted felon (which statements have been blessed with a sense of unimpeachable truth as a result of being included in the Mitchell Report). As Curt says ” [a]re we at a place where people are ok with names being thrown out this callously is ok?” He was talking about Canseco’s allegations against A-Rod, but at this point, I think Canseco has more credibility on this subject than Mr. McNamee. Just my opinion.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
I love baseball. In my mind, Its happiness on all levels. Its what I want to teach my 19 month old. He already can recognize it when its on tv and even, I promise its true, recognizes Papi and Manny by name when they appear on screen. But these days Im sad. Thanks, Curt. I appreciate your opinion
December 19th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Here is the real deal and I could care less what anyone thinks. HGH or Steroids or and other PED’s does nothing more than help a player recover from injury faster. It doesn’t take a .230 hitter to a .330 hitter. It doesn’t help a guy find the strike zone if he couldn’t before. The only thing it does is turn a warning track out to a homer run. Which in turn creates revenue for baseball.
This doesn’t mean its right but I would say they are cheaters rather call them crooks.
Crooks because the stance by most is that “It wasn’t illegal in baseball” is crap! It was illegal in the United States of America. I’m in the military and I have to follow the rules of the US government and the UCMJ and what ever country I’m in. Same as ball players should. Follow the rules of the country then follow the added rules of the organization you are in. MLB can’t legally loosen the laws of the land. Thats why I believe Bud and Don Fehr should be taking the fall in this matter. They are in charge and the guys have been doing this crooked stuff for years and they get a free pass. I say BS. No place else in corporate America could such a scandle occur and not have the top guy’s fired.
Thats my opinion!
December 19th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
And you really had never known or heard of anyone using steroids when you testified to the Senare? It’s not believable and why you lied only you know. Only Mark McGuire had the balls not to lie that day. That was the first sad day for baseball and steroids.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
curt
your opinion as a [ i think hall of famer] is valued . I am a huge Clemmens fan and i caught a bunch of crap in work about the report. I want to beleive it is not true but i am sure that it is. There is so much money to day in baseball that some players will do anything for that next big payday,stay clean and go to cooperstown Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
First time on site.
your a blowhard. You went to Congress and for once you didn’t open your mouth – fraud.
your in the game – you know what you see – be a stand up guy – and tell yourside then. you want the game cleaned up – you could have shared thoughts with senator mitchell.
your exactly who i wouldn’t want to be friends with – guilty or not guilty aside – i am glad you stand behind what you called a friend.
there is an ongoing investigation in Florida – more names will come out – you can tell with an eye who is/was on something – particulary a certain batterymate of yours – he shrunk – a former sox ss shrunk, former RF – shrunk. detroit catcher shrunk, why so few names?
December 19th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Curt,
That’s a pretty high horse you’re riding. Firstly, why if someone confesses should they go unpunished? Why is Peittite, for being forthcoming, to be believed? As I recall, a couple of years ago Brian Roberts had an amazing (for anyone, not just Brian Roberts) first half. Is there any connection with his use of HGH? What about his numbers? Should an apology suffice? Why single out Clemens, then? Baseball has always been a “dirty game”. Even when the incentives (i.e. the money) wasn’t great. Racism, drinking, drug use, have all been constants in the league. Never mind, infidelity, cheating (between the lines), and a general oafishness on the player’s part. The Mitchell Report offers no surprises, I’m afraid, just a peek into a world that has always looked the other way when it comes to doing the right thing.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Excellent post C. Montague. I hope you know that Ol’ Dude Ranch launches all his bombs au naturelle. No PEDs here, just chicken parms and Megadeth.
Dealt it,
Dougie “Dude Ranch” Mirabelli
December 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Nice post Curt, I don’t agree with you much but I can’t disagree with much in this post. Its nice to hear some “real” talk. I agree also on the point of returned awards, just like Olympics medals, this should become the penalty for steroids. The only disagreement is that I believe Pedro was the better pitcher regardless of the lastest news.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
I have a profound respect to you Curt for the statements you made about the allegations regarding Roger Clemens. As a baseball fan, I hope to god that those allegations are false, and that he is able to clear his name. To make those comments regarding such an influencial player on your career must have been difficult. It goes to show the charater that is so evident in many players in Major League Baseball, like yourself. One can dream that this character is what will carry baseball to the next level, and not this witch hunt to clean out the cheaters. I fully support all testing in every sport, including baseball, even if it means risking the respect that I have for my favorite athletes (The Floyd Landis Tour de France allegations still kill me). Either way, thank you for being candid on your beliefs, and being true to your mind and heart.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Okay, lots of stuff here. In order to respond thoroughly and accurately to these issues, seems to me would take many, many, many hours of research and analysis. That said, here are some thoughts from someone who is a but rushed for time tonight. (Haven’t started Christmas shopping yet!)
As for Sen. Mitchell and the issue of bias: Well, don’t completely agree with Curt on this one. There IS a significant conflict of interest here. What if Mitchell, during the course of his investigation, uncovered evidence that John Henry or Theo had done something outrageous, or found some other evidence that would make the Sox look really, really bad? Now sure, odds are probably long that something like that would happen or happened, but what if it did? Then what does Mitchell do? Some folks point to Theo’s email about Gagne as evidence that Mitchell was impartial. To me, that really means nothing. In fact, someone as smart as Mitchell would know that by including it, there might be less of a perception of bias or conflict; how do we know that wasn’t the motivating factor. Bury the good stuff, or don’t follow a few leads because they may lead to something worse, but include the email, because I (Mitchell) have to include something negative to look impartial here; after all, I just named Clemens and Petitte! Mitchell said a few times that soem of the players named played for a number of teams during their careers, but he left out the fact that it looks worse for organizations if players did PFDs while in your employ, not before or after the guy played for you. All that said, do I think the report was largely legit and accurate? Yes. But, in my opinion, there definitely was a conflict of interest there, certainly a potential one, anyway, and Selig and MLB made a mistake in having Sen. Mitchell, one of the officials of the Boston Red Sox, lead (or participate in) that “independent” investigation. The criticism of Mitchell on this point point, whose firm was paid millions of dollars for their work, is valid, in my opinion. All that said, I believe the report is accurate, and that Mitchell in all likelihood conducted the investigation impartially. But what would’ve happened when the going got tough? Pontious Pilate was doing the right thing until the mob became too insistent and he caved in to them. The point: everyone can do good when it is easy to do so; but the real test of courage is when the going gets tough.
Well, that’s all I have time for right now….wanted to get into Clemens and was not sure that Curt should have opined on the subject out of personal loyalty toward him – but I haven’t thought through the issue yet. Wanted to get into “defamation” issue as well….i believe to legally defame someone you have to know that what you are saying is false. To give a wrong opinion is not defamation, I don’t believe. I”m not saying Curt should have dropped names, but he not fear legally defaming someone by giving his opinion or telling the truth.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
The bottom line for me is that Pedro Martinez posted a 291 ERA+ pitching to hitters on PEDs. How ’bout that.
Just kidding (ok, not really). I am mostly in tune with your proposal, however impracticable it may be (no way the players’ association will sign something like that). Pete Rose got completely erased from baseball for something he did AFTER his career was over, I don’t see how these guys’ position is any better. Only problem is, they’re inevitably gonna be taking the flack also for hundreds of other players who used PEDs, and whose names didn’t surface. Mitchell himself admitted there are many others whom he couldn’t find. But stripping the titles, awards and numbers of those who WERE caught (provided, of course, that they are proven guilty) sounds good enough to me. We’ll see.
I don’t know about Pettitte, Roberts and the others who came forward. Obviously they wouldn’t have said a word hadn’t they been called out. Obviously it was “only once”, “to help my team”, “for healing quicker” etc. etc. I really can’t help but feel like a lot of players have fooled us around for the past couple decades. Although I had as much respect for Pettitte as a Sox fan could have, this has got nothing to do with my opinion of him as a person. He/they had illegal aids that other players didn’t.
My cold, misanthropic fan perspective is this: say what you want, but neither Andy Pettitte nor Brian Roberts are going to Cooperstown. Roger Clemens, though, was virtually already there – up til a few days ago. He has a lot more to lose.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Quick addition on Clemens that I left out above: I believe the Mitchell report in regards to him, and while it is regrettable that Clemens did not come out and tell the truth about his use of PEDs, it is not unsurprising, to me anyway.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Question:
honestly – How does anyone clear their name after that albeit guilty or not guilty? What proof do you (clemens, gagne whomeever) provide?
They come out and deny – they are lying. They say nothing guilty. Mcnamee is under oath – he has no reason not too lie – assuming clemens and others go under oath and tells his side – he’s still a liar. 1 other person in this world who has a vendetta and its two on 1 and he’s in jail. legacy and what have you vs. jail is a greater longterm consequence. how do you prove slander in this case? how does mcnamee prove he is telling the truth – he would be in jail without immunity.
You seem to have answers – explain council.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Mr Schilling,
Great post. However, bostondirtdogs.com has already “scandalized” your post.
In my opinion, Barry Bonds believes he did not lie, because he is in denial. If you think it didn’t happen, it didn’t, right? Same thing goes for Sheffield, he made a statement that he was not aware at the time what he was taking was the “clear” and led himself to believe that steroids were only injected. Seems like a cop-out to me.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Curt Schilling is dead on!!!
I am so sick and tired of people making up this ridiculousness that Senator Mitchell has no credibility. The report loses credibility for not naming more players….even heard all players. This is just ridiculous. WE ALL KNOW STEROIDS WERE A HUGE PROBLEM IN BASEBALL. Now that some of our heroes are getting called out, people want to just turn off their brains and discredit everything as pure speculation. I know…I know. You are innocent until proven guilty. Well that same concept goes for the guy that gets caught with his pants down and a child in the room engaging in sexual activities….so I don’t want to hear that mess.
Get a clue folks, ABRE LOS OJOS!!!!!!
Evereything has been tied together with plenty of corroboration. And now players are starting to take the (semi) high road and admit their faults. EXCEPT for Roger Clemens. I loved the guy myself. Since I was a kid. I still have all of his rookie cards. But I am not in denial. I know how to think.
I remember when the spec on Barry Bonds initiated. People were in denial then .Slowly but surely people started to believe when the FINALLY OPENED THEIR EYES and looked at the facts and evidence. Good thing for Clemens is that he can just ride off into his own world and not generate the amount of hatred that Barry Bonds created for himself after CHEATING the world and ripping off Hank Aaron for his HR record. And that goes for Mark (I need an edge to be) Big McGwire. They are all scum that were already players that were above the curve and were SOOO DAMNED GREEDY they had to score some dope to ice their cakes. And now some of you LAMBS have the audacity to ignore the facts and look down their NARROW %#^%$#ED tunnels and still see Roger Clemens as their hero.
Time might tell….but I am for sure…..TIME WILL TURN.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Curt
unlike you I obviously do not know any of these people who have been named in this report.one of the many things that struck me right after reading senator mitchells report was that Brian roberts in particular had a chance to deny the allegations against him as just he said she said testimony based soley on the word of someone who had been caught red handed.it appeared that there was no evidence at all against him(not even one person claimed to see him use or purchase any peds).that being said it is hard for me to feel anything but respect for a man who came clean when he really didn’t have to.I have no alternative but to take your word about the quality of the other men you mentioned.I like you just hope that all the people mentioned in this report that are guilty come clean so we can move on and enjoy another upcoming season.
Woody
December 19th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
(wow) In my opinion you nailed it.
Besides that a Merry Christmas and God Bless
December 19th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
I’ve been thinking about a testing system that might work, ever since the report came out… I don’t know if the Player’s Association would go for it, but it’s similar to the sort of thing done in other sports at varying levels of competition.
Keep the random testing, and increase how often that happens, but also, when it comes to the All-Star Game and the playoffs and beyond, test each player before each series begins.
This way, a player that’s cheating *might* still avoid getting caught during the season, but if he and his team make it into the postseason (or he gets selected for the All-Star Team), he’s likely to get caught at that point, and whatever penalty the Commissioner’s office chooses gets levied.
It doesn’t address HGH or the harder to test PEDs, but once we develop some tests for those, this seems like a fair way to test and catch those who are actually benefiting from cheating.
What do you think?
-Rick
December 19th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Curt, I enjoyed your post. It seemed from your opening paragraphs that you possibly did not want reply’s on this topic, however I wanted to take a chance and ask anyways. And I am not saying people are always guilty by association, and I am not trying to imply that since guys play on the same team that they all act the same way or do the same things, theres people that I work with or work at the same company that I have never talked to, people that I would call acquaintances, and people that I go out with on occasion and speak to every day.
That being said, as a player, and playing with some of the people mentioned, do these guys use the PED’s discreetly, at home possibly? I mean, if I saw a co-worker shooting herion, I would be shocked, I know I wouldn’t say anything, unless it meant losing my job, then I wouldn’t cover for anyone but me. But how do these guys obtain the PED’s, and how come this has took so long to come out? Are non-users covering for people that they know have used, or have they just not been pushed to the point where its “talk or else”? As a Sox fan, baseball fan, I don’t hate any of these guys, I am trying not to judge, but I feel just upset and disappointed. I agree with your opinion and if people stepped up, admitted they cheated, I would be able to forgive and move on (Giambi). I am not trying to imply that you are cheating or have covered for someone that used. That was long winded I know, if you can answer any of these questions, I would be grateful. If you can only answer one, it would be if found out a Steelers player cheated, and was disciplined, and then one of his teammates were found out to have covered (not said anything or when questioned denied that he knew his teammate used PED’s) would you be just as mad at the guy who covered for the cheater as you would be at the cheater?
December 19th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
It is sad that the use of PED’s was something that couldn’t have been taken care of by the players themselves. I have always wondered what someone like Curt or the hundreds of other non cheaters in baseball though while the game was being hijacked by cheaters.
Was it ever brought up to their union leaders? Why was their never a group of players that got together and said “Hey, I should not have to poison myself just to hold onto my spot”.
I think back to a few years ago when the Sox had a player named Mike Benjamin. I remember him being made fun of on EEI because he was so small . I wonder what he thought as players showed up to spring training with 20 pounds of new “muscle” and he was forced to compete against them. And then I would watch the highlights on NESN from 1986 and see that almost every single player on that team was about his size.
I belong to a union, and if there was a group of people that were gaining an unfair advantage against my earnings because they were engaging in illegal behavior, I would raise hell. I was hoping that the Mitchell report would have told some story about something like that. Surely there was a MLB player who over the past 20 years said “Enough!”. I would like to hear something from him.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Curt:
I am basically where you are on this subject. When you strip out all the legalise and carefully crafted statements and debates about standard of evidence and presumption of innocence and all the other standard statements people are hiding behind, common sense and logic would indicate that people’s behavior (including refusing to refute the charges before they got published to the world) is not consistent with people who have nothing to hide. Were I accused of something serious I did not do, I would be SCREAMING to anyone who would listen, and I would not be waiting to consult with the union or find an “appropriate time.” If people are innocent, what is the great mystery or need to strategize? It is unfortunate and disappointing and would not hold up in court, but you don’t have to be a genius to see what is going on. Thanks for being real about a difficult subject.
Mark
December 19th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Wow. I’m first and I am sure I will not be the last to comment here.
As fan of this game, I am deeply saddened by the surfacing of recent events. I feel as a fan, I was betrayed. Working hard to scrape up money for tickets that have now quadrupled in price, MBTA fare, and maybe a hotel room if I am lucky to watch some of the greatest althetes of my time play the game I love so much. I remeber when there were empty seats at Fenway and the only way to get on the top of the Green Monster was to use a very long ladder.
I was there in 1989 sitting in the box seats on the third base line chanting “steroids” at Jose Caseco along with other Fenway Faithful. Did we know for sure then? No. It was a hunch. The guy got bigger, faster than is humanly possible. Not like it helped his career at all. The most exciting thing he did that we saw as fans was date Madonna. And of course Alex was not named, nor do I belive he ever will be. That man has more God given talent in his pinky finger than Jose has in his whole body. I’m digressing. Moving on.
I was in attendance at the MLB Choice Awards in Orlando, Florida a few years back. Got to meet Cal Ripken Jr- what a class act. More people should be as polite and friendly as him. Wanted to introduce myself to David Cone, he seemed like he was also a very nice gentleman. Other players who I will not name, only because they were not named in the post here, were downright scary looking to me. Pockmarked faces and necks bulging out of their tuxedos. They had the biggest heads I had ever seen. They didn’t even look happy. When I got home and I compared the image in my mind to the rookie cards sitting before me, I was in shock. There is no way a daily workout and a few protein shakes can do this to a person. No way.
What hits me the hardest is that MLB players and their counterparts in the NHL, NBA, MLS, NFL and so on, are role models for young boys. What are they silently saying to them? Do drugs, it makes you better. You can’t win unless you cheat. Good guys finish last. Absurd and inexcusable.
The day that Barry Bonds* broke the record, I was sick to my stomach. The game I love to watch so much, was officially a laughingstock. Sad. I turned the channel everytime it came on.
On the flip side. I get it. I get the primal need to be bigger, faster and better than the next guy, no matter what the cost. Being number 1. The stakes are high, the money is higher. Do what you need to do to be the best of the best and stay at the top of your game for as long as possible. It’s like gambling. You hit 21 and you need to keep playing, bet more each time the cards are dealt beacuse you know in your gut, you can’t lose. It becomes an addiction spliced with fear. The person can’t stop, even if they wanted to. What a way to live.
Baseball, like all professional sports, is written not by the fans, the players themselves or by the media, but by the stat book at the end of the day. You are only as good as your last at bat or your last start. But is that really worth sacrificing your good name, your family, and your life? What kills me is these aren’t just actions of players, but actions of parents. And because of that, those found guilty, I may not be able to forgive.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Curt, I just wanted to thank you for your opinion and say how well written I feel this article was. Also, what the heck is going on in SF. I couldn’t imagine wanting to sit in jail rather than testify in court; but hey, I guess everyone is different…
December 19th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Great job Curt. When you see Dustin Pedroia, thank him for the article on the ProJo http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/sox15_12-15-07_UU89AAQ_v3.45e79a8.html proclaiming himself to be part of the “clean generation”.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Profound and provocative words as usual, Curt. It is always largely appreciated on my half to hear your viewpoint as us fans (specific ballclub nonwithstanding) are really only left to ponder the inner workings of a professional ballplayer’s mind.
I have been walking the line regarding Clemens in the past week or so. As I am a college pitcher, I have always admired both Roger and yourself growing up in the Boston area. Reading your viewpoint has really assisted my transduction of this entire fiasco, and as such, I value it very highly.
Peter
Norfolk, MA
December 19th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Nicely said Curt. But i like to express my opinion about andy which is, i don’t think he just used juice (steroids, HGH whatever) to recover from injury. i beleive he did to enhance his performance and would have done multiple times. Regarding Roger, he is a disgrace to the game right from how he rants that he doesn’t play for money and then plays for the damm Yankees**********(note the asterick). He is definitely a Juice Guy. I respect you very much because you have the passion for the game and not for the money.
Thanks Curt for all that you have done for the sox…..GOOD LUCK for 2008 and hope that SOX will retire NO 38 after you retire from the game. I wont forget what you din in ‘04. Thanks again and good luck.
bye
Ramprasad
December 19th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Hey Curt,
I love your blog, I almost feel voyeuristic reading it.
I’m curious, if Clemens admitted it, (assuming he’s guilty) would that seal the deal of him not getting into the hall of fame?
I wish he would just be real and issue his own personal statement. Like you said in another blog, we are very forgiving and appreciate when someone admits to mistakes, no matter how big they are. How can you not forgive when a person is in a bad position?
As usual, thanks for a look inside.
Peace
December 19th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
In my humble opinion, I think there are bigger fish to fry than the use of steroids by professional athletes. Sure, they may provide a bad example for young people, but they are making the decision themselves. I wish there was as public an effort to get rid of NARCOTICS abuse, not only in sports, but in society. Prior to the report coming out, everyone had their suspicions that players were using banned substances, most of these arguments against the big sluggers, but also suspected that pitchers may be involved too. I understand the need to “level the playing field” but it may also be said that you could assume more may be using than we know, so the playing field may be level.
I’ve never come close to being able to play sports at a professional level, but if I thought taking something could give me a chance at a big league contract, I would consider it.
I have no problem with those athletes that have taken steroids, I only ask that they own up to it. It is those that are guilty of using and then deny it that I DO have a problem with.
–my 2 cents–
Chris,
Plainfield, CT
December 19th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Baseball historians will likely view the Mitchell Report as a stroke of genius by the Commissioners Office. I emphasize that the idea was devised by the Office and not the Commissioner since Bud Selig doesn’t impress me as having the level of genius to craft such a plan.
The report is obviously a device to pressure both the Player’s union and ultimately Congress to react to the truth, with the ultimate endgame seeing Roger Clemens being called to testify, with or without immunity. This would be both the darkest and most amazing spectacle in baseball history.
Hopefully the players will react positively and will move the game towards a more level playing field by adopting most if not all of Mitchell’s conclusions.
A worst case scenario, even worse than the continuation of head-hiding-in-the-sand, would be for Congress to get involved. Congress has a proven track record of having the anti-Midus, Excrement Touch and screwing up everything they handle (see: Healthcare, Education, Social Security and the Tax Code). In the face of this, I encourage Curt and his fellow members to take charge of the union that they own and save the game from the fate of government control.
Scott
December 19th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Curt, I am comforted by your reflections on Canseco. I feel the same way as you do. Canseco’s anger at MLB borders on obsession. His campaign to expose the PED matter is totally self serving, and not at all intended for the benefit of baseball’s reputation. I pity him and am angry at WEEI for giving him a platform for his mantra (but I guess it passes WEEI’s entertainment threshold).
As for the reality of Mitchell’s report, it has had the following affect on me, a 62 year old devoted fan of MLB and our beloved Sox. Prior to Mitchell’s report. I naively held on to the the supposition that the use of PED’s was confined to a relative minority of MLB players. Now, following the revelations of the Mitchell investigation, I now acknowledge that the violation of MLB’s drug policy is and has been much greater than I ever wished to acknowledge. I am disappointed in that revelation and am particularly disgusted with the two pedastal violators of official MLB policy, Bonds and Clemens.
Baseball is bigger than Bonds and Clemens and will rise above this tragic era. After all, baseball survived the much more threatening scandal of the early twentieth century with the Black Sox incident. Bonds, Clemens and the rest of the violaters are victims of greed and the culture of our times. I am sure that many of those violators are decent human beings (as you contend Brian Roberts is). Nevertheless, they all ignored contemporary medical advice and chose to introduce PED into their system for purposes of advancing their baseball careers.
I want to see our congress take a firm and absolutely clear stand on this matter and shake your union’s knee-jerk protective tendencies so that a reasonably measurable program can be instituted that will close the door on this disgraceful period in baseball history. MLB has never been as popular as it is today…..especially in Boston. This means unprecendented revenues to franchise owners and increased contracts with MLB players. There has to be accountability for those responsible for this result.
I would like to see Selig replaced by a commissioner with public appeal. Perhaps a baseball commissioner can be selected with a widespread voting process (vs. the current process which is much too incestuous).
Thanks for sharing your inner thoughts on this controversial matter. Baseball will overcome this challenge as it has many others in its past. Baseball is a mirror of USA culture, so lets learn from this and make the necessary adjustments to our lifestyle that better serves our selves, our familes and our communities.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Curt,
I signed up for an account solely to reply to your post. I appreciate reading your poised and unconcealed thoughts on this subject/report (of course I appreciate the two, so far, WS titles you’ve brought to Boston too!) I don’t always agree with your opinions, just like anyone, but I always agree with how you present them. Instead of harping on this subject, which I’m sure you’re done with since the post, I’ll ask: can you explain what you meant when you said Clemens undressed you as a pitcher? Was it mechanics-related or what? Thanks for keeping up the great work on and off the field!
December 19th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Hopefully this won’t be considered idiotic or a rant. It is off the cuff.
I think the saddest part of this whole affair is we are no longer talking about BASEBALL. The steroid scandal has erased everything else off the winter baseball scene.
I’d prefer to discuss the Giants rebuilding mode rather than Barry Bonds. I’d rather talk about how it looks like the Rays are (finally) looking like a team that wants to compete rather than rebuild. I want to ponder what the Red Sox or Yankees rotation might look like if Johan Santana is acquired.
This offseason has had more major trades than any other in recent memory. Good players are changing teams. Potentially good players are moving from place to place. While the AL looks like five teams competing in a four team race, the NL….well, it’ll be easier to predict the 3-4 teams that won’t be competitive.
Someone wake me up when the season starts.
Gary Renard,
Orlando, FL
December 19th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Schill,
Fantastic blog! Insightful, respectful, honest, a little self deprecating. I’m trying not to come off as some sycophant, but, in my opinion, this was your best piece ever. Great article! Everyone should be as forthcoming.
Keep the good stuff coming.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Wow. Thank you Schill for that – it was really interesting to hear you talk about this from a player’s perspective, as well as hear you articulate what a lot of us have been thinking.
I had a conversation with some of my students about the report, and we discussed that athletes need to act the same way we ask students to ask. If you make a mistake, admit it and apologize. Don’t try to cover it up. Sure, it’s not great that you made that mistake, and there still may be consequences for your actions, but by denying it you only make it worse. I feel the same way about guys like Roberts and Pettite. Yes, what they did was wrong. But for them to come out and admit what they did and apologize for it, rather than to continue to try to cover it up shows a good deal about their character. I hope that more players will act this way, like the role models so many hold them up to be.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
I live in Boston grew up loving baseball (since mid 70s). I have a hard time believing any player did not take (no offense Curt) enhancement drugs and feel the ownership and players union are disingenuous at best. Who should we believe?
The whole mess is tiresome and has further distanced my interest in the game.
I enjoy Fenway with clients but would not spend my own money.
You lost me and my kids are not far behind (Lacrosse).
But we still have nice days at Fenway to enjoy, at least not on my dime.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Dear Mr Schilling….I wandered into your page after reading comments you made on here in the NY Times. I will admit up front I am a Yankee fan. Having said that up front I just want to say I find you extremely arrogant and self absorbed. You have this tough guy image (and maybe you need (needed) it to be a “power Pitcher” that scares people. I find your comments about The Rocket and other players named in the report to be condescending. Get off your high horse. People do things all the time that they are not proud of, for most people it never plays out on the national news. The way these players are being smeared on the news is down right wrong, and with the comments you made it does not help the matter. Forget all your money, all your arrogance, and all you high and mighty stance and try to realize that these other players are you brothers in the league. Whether you support them or oppose them do it quietly. Keep your negative statements and thoughts to yourself. Pride my friend comes before the fall.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
ah… the beauty of the internet. Thanks for sharing those thoughts.
I read the entire Mitchell report after it was released. I was disturbed that most of the info came from really only 2 or 3 sources. I shudder to think what would happen to the sport if a complete “true” investigation were conducted.
I’m trying to move past this issue and report. I’m holding on to the fact that as I write this there are only 96 days, 6 hours and 27 minutes until the Red Sox open up the 2008 season.
I’ve only got to hang on for 96 more days, I guess.
rob
December 19th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Thank you for stepping up and saying it like it is.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Curt,
Thanks for the thoughtful and honest post. It’s greatly appreciated.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Got one major flaw there Curt boy … you were in the game and you knew it was going on and you did nothing about it. So don’t take the moral highroad cause your just as guilty by OMISSION as those who used were by comission. Just like the various sports writers who knew and did nothing, you’d be better served keeping your mouth shut.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
HEY CURT WHO MADE YOU THE AUTHORITY ANYWAY.DID YOU FORGET THERE ARE 2 TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY AND DONT YOU REALIZE THIS REPORT WAS BASED TOTALLY ON HEAR SAY .YOU NEED TO SHUT YOUR MOUTH UNTIL YOU HAVE THE FACTS,YOU SOUND LIKE IT WAS YOU THAT WROTE THE REPORT.GET REAL AND REMBER GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU GO RUNNING YOUR MOUTH WHICH YOUR GREAT AT.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
I think your point regarding Clemens’ Cy Young awards is a very valid point, as is to question the accomplishments of anyone who achieved while cheating. I would offer 2 thoughts. 1) Although the players themselves knew at the time of their transgressions that their acts were unfair to the players they were competing against, some of these chemicals were not technically illegal at that time in the game of baseball. Throughout history, players have attempted to garner any competitive edge they could muster, whether through newer technology, better understanding of how to improve the human body, or a combination of those things. The steroid era in baseball is simply a new twist on an old theme. So, to make the punishment fit the crime is to open the flood gates of every player throughout the history of the Game that tried to get ahead. 2) It worries me that these players are guilty until proven innocent and have been prosecuted in the court of public opinion. The evidence in the Mitchell report in some cases would not even be admissable in court, it is simply nothing more than hearsay. Yet, players, including future hall of famers, have had their careers tarnished and their stats questioned because of the word of a couple of sources primarily, one of which was being prosecuted and trying to save himself. Without more evidence, to say that a player’s achievements are illegitimate is also cheating the game of baseball. George Mitchell’s report could have named anyone or everyone as suspicious characters with a link to steroids and whether or not there existed a shred of actual evidence, these players careers were essentially over. I am, however, proud of players that have stepped forward, taken responsibility and admitted their errors, but let’s wait to see over the next few months what real evidence exists to link anyone to steroids. If, then, Roger Clemens, is as guilty as Barry Bonds (if, in fact, he is guilty), kick him out of the game, take away the awards, let him spend his summers pitching to his son instead of major leaguers. Good column Curt, see ya in ‘08.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Curt, quite frankly you sometimes just have to shut your mouth. You always feel the need to comment on everything that everyone else does wrong. Just because your jealous you will never be as good as Roger, doesn’t mean you have to go and tell him to return his Cy Young awards. How many Cy Youngs have you won Curt? Oh, and how many career wins?
That’s what I thought. For some crazy reason the Red Sox decided to give you a contract to come back and pitch next year. That’s even more stupid than the Yankees giving Roger Clemens $28 million to pitch 15 games. You are a good pitcher, don’t get me wrong, but you have a huge mouth and it really gets to people. I suggest you leave your comments to yourself and go on posting your plus 5 ERA this year as the #5 in the Red Sox rotation.
Have a great day.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
curt, i agree with you that accountability is everything, and innocence is a right until guilty, but it seems that public opinion has trumped that right. how can we know for sure that these great players have done these things? the mitchell report states no facts, just stipulation. but the public has already tried and convicted the names on that report. what the hell?????
December 19th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Hey Curt… it’s spelled Pettitte. You claim to have respect for him, step one of that is spelling his name correctly.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
I agree with 99.9% of what you write here. As far as the multiple Yankees in the report, suffice it to say that one of the two major witnesses for the investigation was intimately involved with the Yankees; as far as I know, that’s the only reason we are reading predominantly about Yankees. If the clubhouse guy from LA rolled over (or any other city, including Boston), we would be reading a much different report.
And for Yankee fans crying Sox bias: get over it. This report threw Mo Vaughn under the bus, as well as Theo Epstein for his apparent decisions to acquire players that were overtly under his suspicion of using PED’s. A biased report would have taken great pains to protect Vaughn and especially Epstein.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
in a hypo- what would you have done if your name was on that list? how would you have handled it?
December 19th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
curt…
while i may not be a fan of yours, your team or your history of outspoken statements i really have to commend you for your honesty.
the dressing down by roger has been well documented and i must say if the allegations against him are true how much it might hurt to see someone who influenced your career flat out cheat and lie.
hope to see alex take you deep next season…
December 19th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Dear Mr. Schilling,
How do you know Roger Clemens and the other 86 people accused of using steroids in the Mitchell report? Have you forgotten that in the united states you are innocent until proven guilty? The information obtained in the Mitchell report can’t be confirmed as credible. He never had the power of the law to force baseball players to talk.
Regarding your post on Roger Clemens…the man is 45 years old, has nearly 360 wins, and 4500 k’s. This man deserves the benifit of the doubt. It may be wise to wait to give your opinion until all the facts come out the next time a dramatic baseball event happens.
Signed,
A Boston Red Sox fan
December 19th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Curt,
All do respect, these players used these substances when they were not banned by baseball. If they did not break the rules how can they have anything stripped from them?
Jay
Oklahoma
December 19th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Curt,
I am an educated individual. Very educated… Yet, when I read your columns, I just can’t understand how half the musings you put on “paper” can originate as thoughts in a fully developed human’s brain. Your column is full of statements made from a perch which you, for some reason, have elevated above everyone else. You make ridiculous statements and then, in a cliche manner, attempt to appease a broad audience by making further statements along the lines of “It may not be that simple, or I might just be naive and stupid…” Please…
Now I know that someone like you is probably thinking “No one is forcing you to read my blog. The fact that you are here means you are interested in what I am saying.” I’ll wait while you think about whether or not the world revolves around you…….. In actuality, I’m just curious as to what an apparently vapid mind can come up with. It’s pretty interesting actually. More on that later.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
This posting took real guts. I appreciate your opinion coming from the inside of baseball. You are 100% right; those who are found to have used performance enhancing drugs should have any accumulated stats or awards taken back. I can’t even imagine how it must feel for guys like Frank Thomas, who lost an MVP award to Jason Giambi, a self confessed juicer. Keep the truth coming.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
You should talk, Mr. Curt you should be in that report along with your trucker friends like john kruk, mike liberthal oh yeah and the already mentioned lenny d. Those phillies teams were all on juice including yourself. The only thing is that you guys got the juice from other suppliers that are not mentioned on this report. You, out of all people are juiced. your like 50 years old and still throwing hard like the rocket. so before you start bad mouthing the rocket or any other player you should return any crummy stat you own to baseball. lead by example….the truth will come out and you will be on that or any other list that will come out. so be prepare Mr. curt!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Curt, I think that because all these names came out of just a few sources you should accept the fact that players like you who give it with just there guts are the exception and that most of your friends and colleauges are guilty in one way or another. I refuse to believe that only 80 guys were using. How many more circles are there? These are the people who should admit the mistake before they are outed. If you escaped this round and are found out later who had your chance to plead and move on. Oh, one more thing, go Yankees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Well Mr Schilling,
I just wish you had done the right thing and sat down with Senator Mitchell when asked. This has gone on for far too long because of this ridiculous code of silence. Doing the right thing should have been more important than keeping the dirty secrets.
Would Senator McCain have kept the silent?
Sincerely,
Hank
December 19th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Two comments:
First and foremost, in our great land, people are innocent until proven guilty. Your whole arguement revolves around something that is truely unAmerican, that these players, because there name has been in a report, are guilty and should lose parts of careers and/or awards until they prove themselves innocent. A very shameful approach, if you ask me.
Second, what about those not named in the report? Did they do nothing wrong just because they were in the report? Should they have to prove themselves innocent? In fact, should we take you or Cal Ripken or some other player at their word or should they have to also prove their innocence, even if they were not on the list.
Maybe a third comment, what about what Sen Mitchell said about recognizing there is an issue, fixing it, and moving on, without punishment. I agree with the Senator, let’s forgive, fix, and move on.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Dude… you are dead on. And that’s coming from a Yankee fan of 31 years who absolutely hated you in 2001 and again in 2004.
Nice job Curt.
Chris
chrisfont23@gmail.com
December 19th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Curt,
Are you serious man? Shut up! Nobody cares what you have to say. Your voice means absolutely nothing in this world. You have one job…TO PITCH! Just stick to it while you still can (sort of).
Stop acting like you never took the stuff. How did that ankle rehab so quickly? And further, how about the fact that Mitchell is a Red Sox fan? Come on guy, nothing stinks here? The words Roger Clemens should never come out of your mouth, you couldn’t wipe Rogers A$$. You seem to think you are one of the great immortal pitchers of all time, but you are not. You don’t have the stats and you don’t have the respect of the fans. You would be best served just shuting up for once on an issue, no wonder 95% of the MLBPA hates you and half your team thinks you are a total tool (so does 99% of America).
Lastly, your comments make you look like a rat, rats get the bats. Seriously Curt just retire already and do us all a favor. Just disappear.
-Fack U
December 19th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Curt:
Get over yourself. This whole steroid issue is a bunch of crap.
As a fan, I pay to see my players perform at the highest levels. I want to see pitchers throw 98 MPH fastballs, and I want hitters to hit those pitches over the wall and into the coves and bays ands parking lots.
Who cares that a lot of professionals take a performance enhancers to play a game. You should just legalize the whole gamet of steriods, and put a checklist next to yuor name if you are using them, just like they do at horse races.
For amatuers, it is a different thing, it is for pride and country. Professionals, all you guys are all about is money anyway, so who cares what you do in your conditioning. Pump it up.
What the hell, Babe Ruth conditioned on beer and alcohol.
So stop with all the self ritious (sp?) crap, live and let live.
I think you should all get off your high horses and just play baseball. If you guys really cared about the youth of america, I think you wouldnt be charging people for your autographs on baseballs and pictures and used jerseys. You would be just giving them away. After all, most of you ballplayers, make way more than any average american, and can afford to give back.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Good post. Totally agree with you regarding Sen. Mitchell. There is no way (and no reason) for him to attach his name to something that could destroy it (his name, that is).
Also, regarding various suits that you would have these players bring for slander/libel/defamation, etc. Given their (and your) status as a public figure, the standard is so high (actual malice) that it is nearly insurmountable. Now, symbolically, a suit might appease people who are less knowledgeable about the law, but what if they (the players) lose the suit? Is this adjudication (or dismissal) considered enough to substantiate what was said about them? (IMO, no).
Regardless, I think everyone listed in the report is completely “guilty” of whatever they are “accused” of. Your argument concerning those trainers who were granted immunity have too much to lose (and nothing to gain) from lying.
It is sad for baseball fans, most of all. I don’t care that you’ve probably given up HR’s to juicers (unless it was during your tenure as a Sox), but what I do care about is watching those players rake in MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars while the little guys (Lou Merloni, Dustin Pedroia, arguably, you) have to struggle to break into the big leagues and make it on, essentially, pure talent and hard work. That is a terrible, terrible reality.
Anyhow, Merry Christmas! Don’t break the diet during the season, you’ve got a lot of money riding on it!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Curt,
Full disclosure, I’m not a huge fan. I admire the hell out of you for what you did in 2004. As a pitcher, I am a fan. That said, I give you props for coming out and speaking your mind about the Mitchell report. What you said made a lot of sense, and as a player it must have been hard to lay into other players like that. But you know what? They asked for it. As a non PED user, It must have driven you crazy to see Clemens achieve what he did, when you must have at least suspected he was dirty. But you’re the one who pitched the Sox to the WS title, not him. He was icing on the cake for his teams that won him rings. You were an INTEGRAL part of the teams that won you rings.
One thing though: You’re being fooled by Pettite. There’s NO WAY he just did it once or twice and quit. But other than that, you’ve had the best take of anyone, player or not, since the report came out. And I’m not just kissing your butt like most of the posters here. Like I said at the start: I don’t like you much.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Curt, your intelligence is profound, and your intgrity is riteous Wish there was more like you in the game instead of the selfish greedy ones we are hearing abour!!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
So i dont know how to start this other then..your ideas to take away Roger Clemmens’ Cy young awards is completley ridiculous. Now lets say even if he is guilty of this, what you are proposing is like saying: If you cheated 4 times in high school and the school found out 5 years later, you should have your high school diploma taken away or that if you got drunk, got into your car and drove home, you could be arrested any day after that. Now I am not encouraging the usage of PED’s or saying that all should be forgotten if he did it in the past. But, you need to realize that if you try and say that the “192 wins and 3 Cy Youngs he won prior to 1997 were the end”, then what are you going to do? Take away all of the wins he got for the Yankees’ after 1997 (because lets not forget it is a team sport) and try and figure out if they still would have made the playoffs. Then if they still would have won the East, try and say; well he won game 3 of the ALDS so that game should be forfitted and they would have lost the series and now we need to have a different ALDS winner…no its impossible. Should we also take away all of Brian Roberts stats after he injected himself with steriods and then take away all of the things he contributed to his TEAM and then put it into a game simulator and see how different the outcome of the season would have been? I’m sorry for inform you Mr. Schilling, but even if he is proven guilty you cant just try and figure out how much of an impact the PEDs really had on his stats and how different the season would have turned out.
-Chris
December 19th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Great post Curt!! I would like to be able to take Clemens at his word, but based upon his trainer’s testimony, as well as upon his turnaround with the Blue Jays, it appears as if steroids were the main reason for his resurgence. If true, he should just admit it, apologize, and just go away for a while. He will still be one of the greatest pitchers of his era, especially during his early Red Sox years, although his career achievements will obviously have been overstated. But hopefully this will serve as a lesson to future athletes that cheating will ultimately do you more harm than good, at least in terms of the public’s view of your accomplishments.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
u know curt u r a piece of work. u as a professional ballplayer know that there r alot of people out there that will say anything to cover there hide. this trainer was not willingly giving information he just didnt want to go to prison. whet ever happen to innocent until proven guilty? why should roger clemens b forced to give up the 4 cy youngs he earned and won. i think if there is 100% proof that he cheated when it was known to be illegal then u try to fry the guy, but til then you should lay off the guy and support him as a fellow collegue. where is your team spirit,players r always trying to b railroaded by others trying to save their hides. u sound like u have proof or are jealous, if u have proof show it if not blow it,… out of your u know what. by they way cooperstown is calling for u to pickup your ketchup stained sock.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
How exactly do you suggest Roger Clemens should go about clearing his name? Even if he is innocent – which I don’t claim to believe – it’s essentially impossible.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Schilling -
You are such as no-account loser.
I can understand you being frustrated because the tainted profession that has supported you all these years is now crumbing and desolving to display what it’s really composed of – a bunch of no-account losers who are under-developed emotionally and over-compensated financially.
Now your whole profession is ready to implode at the first sign of attack….throwing each other to the wolves, just as swiftly as a bunch of Enron-accontants.
Your a back-stabbing embarrassment that should be stripped of the title “Man”.
Fade away and shut-up… no-account loser.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
curt -
possibly your best written post to date… that being said – 2 points:
1) what is the value of naming names unless you can name them all?
while i find it hard to believe you or any other ball player has never come across PED’s (especially HGH) it is obviously rampant and now this list of names bears the cross for an entire generation of athletes that MLB ALLOWED to prosper…
2) Sr. Mitchell plus a mets clubhouse attendant = 26 Yankees named
and you cant believe the reaction – we know you are smarter than that..
December 19th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
I agree about Andy. Andy has not had the side-effects like Bond’s and Clemens has with the swollen head and performing great when they were supposed to be getting worse. People like Roger need to learn that you can still be good without power, like Tom Glavine. 85 MPH fastball and still 13-8 record in 2007. Sorry about Roger.
I feel ashamed about that scumbag Brendan. Can’t believe someone as young as him would turn to steroids.
Good luck in 07, Curt! Red Sox Nation loves you!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
As a long time Sox fan, I have always been a Clemens fan, regardless of where he played. But, after the last couple of weeks, I am greatly saddened by the possibilities, especially after hearing Andy’s admittance.
Thanks Curt for the always insightful posting.
Good luck in ‘08!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
This is my first visit to your blog. I’m a big fan of baseball and respect your abilities as a pitcher and your right to express yourself in your blog. I just have a hard time with the fact that every single blog entry you make becomes a news item at ESPN, SI.com, and other news outlets. They take what they want and blow everything up 1,000 percent. They make you seem to be a controversy hungry crank with an axe to grind, and I’m glad I visited to see that you are much more well thought out than the media makes you appear. I find the other sites somewhat irresponsible in their reporting, and it’s a shame that they can’t be a bit more objective when quoting your blog.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Schilling, does anyone care what you have to say?
We can turn the tables on you, prove that what you have accomplished was not done with steroids.
Oh, wait, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. No one has to try and prove their innocence. They don’t have to testify against themselves. The onus is on the accuser, and the word of one person against the word of another has no credence.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Curt,
I never thought I’d reply to your blog but this is about as eloquent a post as I could think of from you. It’s clear you are a man of strong opinions and to be so upfront about being confused about what’s going on is strength incarnate.
I’m not being a fanboy (girl, actually) – just recognizing what it takes to try to make yourself clear when you’re not entirely sure of your own point. It happens that I agree with you – when everything you’ve worked so hard to gain is about to be taken away, you fight. You don’t fight when you didn’t work that hard to gain it, or you know you don’t have a leg to stand on. The lack of libel lawsuits, even gratuitous ones, speaks loudest of all.
Thanks for all you do – Merry Christmas.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
“The 4 Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations.”
Curt, while I applaud your integrity and your zealous commitment to keep the sport pure, the entire premise of our criminal and civil justice system is that the accuser must first prove his side before the other party has to put on his defense. The purpose behind out adversarial justice system is to make sure that the facts become known. What if someone were to make these same allegations against you? Would you still say that you must prove you are innocent before you are to be believed? It seems only fair to extend the same courtesy to those accused in this report. Give them a chance to put on a defense and let their accusers be cross-examined. If the accusations are proven, then I will agree with you in stripping away their accolades.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
I agree with a lot that Curt had said. I do however have a problem with his suggestion that if Clemens is guilty of these charges, and he probably is, that the Cy Young runner-ups should be granted these awards. Unfortunately, you just can’t do that. You have know idea who else used performance enhancing drugs during this era. Granting the Cy Young award to the runner up, just because they were not named in this report, is irresponsible. It’s a shame that all of the clean players in this era must be looked at with suspicion. I can not tell just by looking at a player if he used performance enhancing drugs, and it has become obvious to me that I cant trust their word as well. Let’s just accept the fact that steroids were prevelant in this era, the numbers are inflated (and will continue to be), and let’s move forward and try to clean up the sport.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
Hi Curt.
I’m 27 years old, and I’ve followed Clemens’ career since I was three years old and he was pitching for our local New Britain Red Sox. I am about as big of a Clemens fan as you can imagine (Don’t worry though….Die Hard Sox fan and wear your St Patty Day Green Jersey to every game).
With that said, you know what sucks? Knowing that the guy you’ve idolized for your entire life cheated. Too much makes sense, not enough doesn’t. It really hurts.
You say that we don’t know these players other than their stats and what we hear, and I agree with you. Now, think about it from a fan’s point of view. I’ve pitched all my life, and always worn the number 21. I got pretty far up, but never broke into the majors. I watched videos of Clemens and figured that he was the best example to model my pitching after. No matter how much I tried, I never could come even close to what Roger was. Eventually, you pretty much come to the understanding that maybe God gave him a talent that I didn’t receive, and you know what, that’s ok. I did my best, and I’m still a fan. I’m totally clean, and worked hard for what I had, but understood at the time that it wasn’t my destiny to be as great as him.
Here’s the part that sucks, though…it’s like a girl looking at a Victoria’s Secret magazine and wondering why she didn’t get those looks, but then finding out that it’s $100K worth of silicone and makeup artists. Totally fake. To hear that your idol probably used steroids and HGH makes you think, “Would I have been that good if I had done that?” Probably not, but it may have given me that Canseco sized boost from one level to the next, and that’s the dangerous part. This whole thing is like a billion dollar advertisement for PEDs. It makes me wonder if everything that I ever looked at in Clemens’ career was worth idolizing. It makes me look at him like that girl looks at a model, and think, is he just some genetically engineered human, and not a baseball God?
My conclusion? It still hurts. That’s it. These guys should think hard about the choices that they made and the people that they have hurt. Kids look up to these guys. Hell, adults look up to these guys. I applaude Pettite and others for apologizing. I condemn guys like Bonds for having such arrogance to deny everything with such evidence against him. And I wish Clemens would put up a real fight in his own voice if he didn’t do it, or just admit it if he did.
We need more players like you Curt. You aren’t afraid to voice your opinion. You aren’t afraid of what people say, and you give back. I have friends that know you personally through baseball and say that the way you act in public is exactly the way you are in private. It’s nice to know that the people who have looked up to you, in the way I looked up to Clemens, will never have to question their loyalties or their beliefs in you. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
P.S. I was a US Marine, and the story you wrote about the Sergeant and his escort brought tears to my eyes. Thanks for putting the word out.
Mike Stufano
December 19th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Curt,
I am a Yankee fan who enjoys your blog. I have never seen a player, like youself, who gives so much to the community. Thank you! Isn’t this whole Mitchell stuff hearsay, except for the cancelled checks and admissions? Where is the proof? The Club House Towel boy and the Ex-Trainer take down 90 players? Are they talking to get a lesser sentence? How about the likes of Brady Anderson, Sammy Sosa, Brett Boone. These guys all of a sudden were hitting 50 or 70 jacks after a 20 or 30 homer season? Anyway, it just doesn’t seem fair to take these guys’ words as gospel and take down some guys who have given there blood, sweat and tears to our National Pastime. You are right though…if you are clean, come forward now or forever be questioned!
Have a Merry Christmas and a Safe and Happy New Year to you and your family! See you 18 more times in 2008!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Hi Curt,
What saddens me about this whole deal is that no-one has come out and said “yea I did it, I needed to try to keep up with everyone else” I have felt from the first time I read the report that it only scratches the surface, and that’s sad. Unfortunitaly we (fans) spend so much time elevating sports stars to this mythical place where they are supposed to be better, stronger and smarter that the average joe. It’s to bad that we spend more time creating great athletes and not enough time creating good people. Now I certianly not calling for an end to sports and competetion. However,I do think we need to come to some sort of reality.
All my best for a happy holiday season to you and your family,
Glenn Shelley
Groveland, Florida
December 19th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
I think you have the “integrity” part wrong. I don’t think a lot of people are questioning the integrity of the Senator. I’m sure his intentions were admirable, however I’m questioning his political astuteness. I don’t think its very smart that he publish any names given to him by testimony from a couple of “drug pushers” who would have sold their mother down the river to get a “lighter” sentence. These guys were basically zeros, scum of the earth, drug pushers who DID get caught! C’mon Curt, even an intellect such as yourself knows that you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and for you to say that Roger and Company must prove their innocence is simply ludicrous. You have it all backwards. Its up to the “governing bodies”to prove their guilt (and not by taking the word of dope peddlers). Have you forgotten where you live?
Curt…innocent until PROVEN guilty…not guilty by accusation!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Curt,
I highly respect you as a baseball player—and even at 40 with your velocity and stuff a tick lower than a few years ago—I would choose you to start my LCS or World Series Game 7 over anyone else pitching today or in recent baseball memory. However, I disagree with taking the Cy Youngs away from Clemens or the MVPS from Bonds or Canseco. We cannot punish ex post facto for rules which were either not in effect or not enforced. As a fan, I am disappointed in Clemens and Bonds; but, even before they supposedly engaged in steroid/HGH use at the times and places listed in the Mitchell Report they were probably heading to the Hall of Fame in 1998 or 1999, respectively. Also, it is unfair to punish people after the fact. Baseball just has to live with this wound no matter how angry we may feel about the situation. Baseball should have had a real drug enforcement policy going back to the 1980s—the fact that it didn’t is not something we can change. I believe in being fair to Bonds and Clemens—when they each were chasing after records and helping their teams win games with their otherworldly performances we as fans all sat back and loved it without question. I am not sure that we fans aren’t being hypocritical, especially since we demand so much from our star players, for judging Bonds and Clemens so harshly. After all, we didn’t care when they were at their peak? A lot of players who used drugs during the steroid era did not have hall of fame caliber careers, so that would make singling out Bonds and Clemens a bit unfair on that level as well. Just a few thoughts on the matter—you are a thoughtful person generally respectful of this hallowed game and tradition and I would love to hear your response.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Mr. Schilling,
This is America and as an American we are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Until I see positive test results from these players I have to believe that they are innocent. You are asking them to clear their name, that is not the players responsibility to prove their innocense, it is our responsibility to prove their guilt.
Thank you,
David
December 19th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
You are a great professional baseball player and have acheived that, no doubt, through hard work and with your god given ability. I am a huge fan of the Sox and also of you when you toe the rubber whether I am watching in the stands at Fenway or on the TV. You resemble a “throwback” player because you do a lot on guts and everything with heart.
My question to you is why do you feel the need to air your opinion about EVERYTHING. Fine to have an opinion, I mean everyone has a right to their own. Because you have fame, your opinion (solicited or not), will be heard and made into a big deal because only because you are a gifted athlete.
I always wondered, but never wasted my time finding out, why you were at that congressional hearing with the likes of MaGwire, Palmero, Canseco etc. I learned the other day (Sat. 12/15/07) on the radio from you of all people why you were there. You were asked a question in an interview and your answer got you an invite to the hearing where you were questioned. Now, most of those guys had no interest in being there because they were obvious candidates. No offense, but you clearly were not a candidate for a possible steriod user or HGH user.dually because of your reputation and physique. You wanted to put yourself there because of all of the players supposedly doing something they weren’t supposed to. Now it comes to light that a supposed mentor is in the mitchell report and you are giving advice (unsolicited again) on what he should do to clear his name. Canseco (though a jackass) is trying to implicate A-Rod and you are telling him to gather a legal team to deal with the situation.
I mean chances are A-Rod has only used the HGH and was never dumb enough to write a check to someone or was lucky enough to be dealing with someone who didn’t turn on the athletes he was tied to to stay out of trouble.
I guess what is bothering me about YOUR involvement is why ARE you so involved. You, in my opinion, are giving an uneeded/unsolicited opinion regarding what some other prominent players SHOULD be doing. What kind of message does that send to our young people in an already over litigious society? Additionally, why is it any of your business if Clemens or A-Rod do anything to clear their name or stop Jose Canseco from making his claims. There is a time and a place for everything. Not everything is a time and a place for you.
Best of luck on the last couple of years of your baseball career.
Ryan M.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Curt I agree 100% with your comments. I feel that if I vwas named in a report and was not guilty I would have proceedings started as quickly as possible to clear my name. If they are innocent, let them state that and prove it to us the fans.
Keep up the good work and keep the blogs coming and lets get Senator McCain on the way to the White House
December 19th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
I have a great amount of respect for you Curt as a pitcher but it ends there. You, like everyone else, is entitled to their own opinion but don’t kid yourself here. No one in their right mind will give up what they earned for and worked hard for. Roger Clemens earned his wins, his trophies, his honors, and awards and nothing will diminish what he has done.
HGH or any type of anabolic steroid will not teach you how to throw a curve ball, throw a strike, perfectly locate pitches… none of those things. There’s a constant in baseball that doesn’t change when batting: You can either hit a curve ball or you cannot. Did steroids help Barry Bonds hit a curve ball, hit a sinker, or hit a fastball? No, it didn’t.
I can certainly cherry pick your whole blog here but won’t because it’s just too easy. After all, you are a MLB player. You’ve been in this game for quite some time and I find it hard to believe that everyone turned a blind eye to steroid use in this game. Every MLB player is part of the problem, guilty or not. It’s appalling that someone else had to step up and take control of this situation regarding steroid use in this game. But ignorance goes a long way and you haven’t fallen far from that tree.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Shut up, you constatly bad mouth Yankees. That’s all you do, you talked trash about A-rod, and now Clemens. You can’t say what YOU would do in his shoes, cuz your not even in the same situationas he is. There is no “evidence” that he did any of that stuff except for a statement made by some guy who’s snitching on half of baseball. What your doing is a “bush league” (If i remember, you called A-rod’s play in Game 6 of the ALCS a “bush league” play on the Jim Rome Show) move on Clemens. Don’t target just one guy. Atleast he had the common sense to retire after this year. Worry about yourself, and your own team. Oh and this year, let’s try not pitching .500 baseball.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Nice work, Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
I’m about to present an outrageous analogy in comparing performance enhancing drugs in baseball to apartheid in South Africa. Nick Saban almost got laughed out of Alabama for doing something similar, but hear me out. I do not for one second claim there is any equivalency whatsoever between one of the great human tragedies of the 20th century and the abuse of performance-enhancing drugs by professional athletes. What is interesting however how the nation of South Africa attempted to transform its deepest stain and find a way to move forward in history. The end of the apartheid era in South Africa involved a nationwide nationwide period of self examination, confession and rehabilitation. Those members of the apartheid culture who honestly admitted their moral and criminal responsibility for granted an amnesty and absolution of sorts and the permission to continue on as members of their society if only as living examples of a tragic history. This broad societal cleansing has enabled the country to take its place in the world with the potential to become something much greater than could have ever been dreamed under the old regime. The game of baseball can learn something from this chapter in modern world history.
I would propose a similar undertaking for professional baseball. Players who have in the past used performance-enhancing substances would have an opportunity during set period of time to make full disclosure and admission of the culpability. All league participants regardless of any previous accusation or evidence would be obliged to make these disclosures. In return for this complete and honest accounting, the player in question would be granted a full amnesty for their prior rules violations. These players would be eligible for all normal professional recognitions including all records, all awards the Hall of Fame, although some notation of enhanced performance would need to be connected to their enshrinement. Players who failed to make truthful admission of their culpability and were later found to have engaged performance-enhancing drug activities would be subject to the full force of all baseball rules including long-term suspension or expulsion from the league. These players would be stripped of any baseball records and awards in a fashion resembling a validation of an Olympic gold medal, but the metal being reawarded to the next eligible player in any particular performance category.
Notwithstanding the Mitchell report, the stench of cheating still permeates the game, and the uncertainty with respect to identity of actual participants threatens the credibility of future competition and makes continuing abuse of substances almost guaranteed. The amnesty proposal makes a lot more sense and holds out the chance for professional baseball to more perfectly embody and exemplify the most transcendental game of all the professional sports. I guess I’m one of those people that believes that game of baseball existed before it was invented, that the unique construction of a game emerged from somewhere deep within the human psyche, that the 27 outs captures a range of potential competitive outcomes that far exceeds anything seen any other sport. The game of baseball simply deserves better. If the shame and disgrace of the recent era is not fully exposed and driven out, it is only a matter of time until the game descends into a monumental farce from which recovery is impossible. I believe there is something eternal about the game of baseball and the game itself will undoubtedly survive, but we will refer to professional baseball in the same breath as professional Jai-Alai
December 19th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
I agree with much of what you wrote, Curt. Beautifully said, as always.
Absolutely, the innocent must stand up now and take steps to clear their names. Admit their error, ask forgiveness, and start to put this behind them. Why wouldn’t they? What could they possibly be waiting for? I asked these same questions today, on my own blog.
I appreciate your character, Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Just shut up for a change and worry about yourself.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
You should return your Cy Young awards, oh that’s right you don’t have any
December 19th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Curt,
Long-time reader and first time leaving a comment/question. Thank you for the blog, your long-term public stance against performance enhancing drugs and taking the time to express your opinion on this subject and many others.
The outcome of this report certainly impacts many players legacies and, as a fan of the game as well as the Yankees, alters my view of several players I have rooted for over the years.
Saying that, the heart of the problem for me is that, primarily, only two clubhouses were exposed. What about the rest of the teams in baseball? According to a dated ESPN article over 200 players have failed drug tests since 2005 and, from what I’ve read, many of these offenders were not affiliated with the two key sources of information in the Mitchell report.
How many other guilty players are there we don’t know about and why are the names of the 2003 survey test (which revealed just five to seven percent of players were on steroids) kept hidden. In my opinion, if baseball was trying to move on there should be full disclosure (i’m sure the player’s union would never let this happen) and everything out in the open — at once.
Thanks again and good luck in 08.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
You should know better than anybody that trying people in the court of public opinion is a recipe for disaster. Since people said your bloody sock was fake and really laced with ketchup should we now think that you are a big faker and phoney and simply self serving to build on the mystique of Curt Schilling? Somebody said it so it must be true. David Justice strongly defended the allegations against him in the Mitchell report and they were made by the same guy that pointed his finger at Clemens. Why don’t we wait and see how the athletes respond to these allegation before we cry about giving up Cy Young awards. You do not need to interject your opinion on every single thing baseball related Mr. Schilling and unless you want to be tried in the Court of public opinion yourself than I would advise you to keep your trap shut.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Hi Curt.
While I agree with you that Clemens should defend himself more vigorously if he is truly innocent, I would point out that in U.S. law, the standards of defamation are incredibly high, and few lawyers would recommend them. Imagine the PR hit if you’re Alex Rodriguez, bring a lawsuit against Jose Canseco for making baseless accusations, and then have the lawsuit dismissed or lose? It could potentially, in the public’s mind, confirm the slander you were suing against.
So I agree that one ought to immediately and forcefully deny allegations, rather than having a lawyer make a statement, to help cement your innocence, but I think your standard of legal action is a little severe.
Thanks for blogging.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
My 11-yr old son is coached by one of the players on the list. He gave a ½ hour speech on why he did it (after denying it in the press). Never really admitted it was wrong but repeated that “it was not illegal and it was not against baseball rules…at the time”. Then he blended it all with a bunch of moral relativism. I can see reaching a point in your career where you have been injured and HGH may be the only way you will ever play again, but fess-up to it – don’t dodge accountability for your decisions.
He left the kids with a very confused, mixed message.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
They say the root of all evil is money and it has certainly played itself out with PEDs. I don’t hold a grudge against professional athletes for the salaries they earn – they have the talent and deserve it. I’d be lying if I didn’t say I wish I had the talent. Let’s face it though, if athletes earned $40k/yr there wouldn’t be the incentive to grab the brass ring. Until the penalty for being caught using PEDs is even more severe than the current 50, 100 and lifetime bans then some ballplayers will always try to stay ahead of the testing curve. Maybe they will stop after being caught and suspended once or twice, but they will still be employed and the money will still flow. Why not put Olympic type testing in place and if caught just once, the ballplayer’s entire salary for the season is forfeited? Because the MLBPA would never go for that. Unfortunately, the sport is getting very hard to watch and because of that I feel genuinely cheated and will have difficulty watching until my faith is restored.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Here is a huge article written by a man who has not met a microphone he does not like. The guy just has to talk every chance he gets and when the press are not around then he sits and does this.
As for his calling on Clemens to give up his awards, does Curt not believe in innocent until proven guilty? Was Curt calling for the heads of the Duke players when they were accused of rape before they were found innocent?
We all know that if Clemens is guilty of this then it is a no brainer that his awards should be given up. But as I said we all know this so again Curt is just doing what he loves to do….talk.
Hey Curt if you want to help this situation out then why don’t you do this….go to your Union and tell them to smarten up! That union is way too strong and they will not do a damn thing to help baseball. All they care about is money and making sure you overpaid players get yours and don’t have to do anything to face the music when this type of stuff comes up.
Being a players rep I would think that you of all people would stand up to the union and say that things have got to change…..and then make sure they follow through! And not with some little slaps on the wrist type of garbage either. If a player is found guilty of using steroids then forget this one game ban crap. Boot him out! Gone…history. Because not only are setroids banned from baseball but they are also illegal! I think the Players Union seems to always forget that part. So Cowboy Up! Do your part as a player rep and clean up the game if you want to talk about it so much! Do something about it instead of yapping all day…You are in a prime position to do so….and if you did then that would be the first time something good has come from that union for the game itself.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
go yanks
December 19th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
Even though I’ve never been a huge Clemens fan, I think we should hold off Judgement until he personally gets a chance to speak and present a case for himself. Maybe he does have a legit arguement, we don’t know.
But he better give us something other than, “I didn’t do it” to chew on, because I think the fans collective patience is wearing thin.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Schill, thanks for such a brutally honest, heart-felt opinion of all that has taken place. Although very little of the report was a surprise to me, I was devasted to see one of my childhood “heros” brought down. I put a “Rocket” poster up in my room as a high school sophomore in 1985. His work ethic contributed to my drive and determination that helped me overcome being cut from a varsity team in central Florida to thriving in the sport by my senior year. I chose to follow my my sense of “call” to attend a mid-western Christian liberal arts school in college and continue on in baseball for simply the pure joy of the game. My roommate was a fellow by the name of Todd Beamer, someone who was at his best a very average shortstop, yet an incredibly solid human being. Interestly, I was asked, going into my freshman year, if I would be open to playing a position outside of catcher. Reason being, there was an athlete by the name of Todd Hundley who had expressed an outside chance of enrolling at the school I was committed to attend. I never met Todd, yet I began to live some of my baseball dreams out vicariously through his Major League success. Bummer to see his name show up in the report!
I was attending seminary near Boston during the mid 90’s and remember listening to a Jose Canseco interview on WEEI. He had reached an incredibly bitter point of his career and really began to sound off over the airwaves in regards to his displeasure with Major League Baseball. He expressed there was something in the works that would help expose the stars of his generation and “bring down baseball” (not the exact words, but the general message). For whatever reason, his comments really bothered me. I grew up eating/drinking/living sports and understood some of the basic etiquette of “calling someone out” as a man vs. capitalizing through the media (after squeezing out millions from a sport that he has completely taken for granted). I never bought his book (could never in good conscience support anything that would lead to him making more $$), despite sadly believing certain excerpts and accusations published throughout the media. Deep down, I new his bitterness and jealously was driving him to rat out and bring down the very people he had so closely associated with.
Two things that really bother me…#1, the athletes I have admired, being influenced by such “scum” as a Jose Cansceco…I watched players blow-up in Oakland, Texas, and even in his brief stint in Boston/Toronto. Some of them, players I deeply respect (even though I can only form this form my opinions from a fan’s perspective). Those players obviously need to take responsibility for their own action. Yet you know the principle, “bad company corrupts good character”…we’re all susceptable! I pray to God that Roger will take the right steps in clearing his name (confession or legal action). My respect level for Pettitte and Roberts has indeed increased (thanks Schill for your personal insight, it helps). #2, I feel resentful of some of these athletes because I have grown up with peers who could have competed or excelled more fully at their level. A family friend who spent 7 years in the AA level of the Cleveland organization (even named defensive player of the year), a brother who was an All-America high school athlete (yet 5′8″ with average power), several summer league pals, and even a hometown teammate who’s brother spent several years as an average to below average catcher (statistically) with the Toronto Blue Jays before becoming a real life “Bull Duhram”-type journeyman catcher. These guys stayed clean, as far as I know and dedicated their lives to the sport for the pure joy of the game! I hesitate to put myself in their category (as much as I loved playing baseball and am a devoted fan), due to the fact I never really took the “risk” of pursuing the next level. I am happily involved in a fulfilling career and family life, yet my joy as a fan has been somewhat tarnished.
Schill, you definitely receive flak at times for speaking your mind, yet as life long Red Sox fan, I thank you for being a stand up guy! You’ve helped bring a championship to my beloved Red Sox and it is guys like you who help contribute to the integrity of the sport and generate enough hope for guys like me to stay interested. God bless you brother!
December 19th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Previous post cleaned up for grammar, spelling and diction.
I’m about to present an outrageous analogy in comparing performance enhancing drugs in baseball to apartheid in South Africa. Nick Saban almost got laughed out of Alabama for doing something similar, but hear me out. I do not for one second claim there is any equivalency whatsoever between one of the great human tragedies of the 20th century and the abuse of performance-enhancing drugs by professional athletes. What is interesting however how the nation of South Africa attempted to transform its deepest stain and find a way to move forward in history. The end of the apartheid era in South Africa involved a nationwide period of self examination, confession and rehabilitation. Those members of the apartheid culture who honestly admitted their moral and criminal responsibility were granted an amnesty and absolution of sorts and the permission to continue on as members of their society if only as living examples of a tragic history. This broad societal cleansing has enabled the country to take its place in the world with the potential to become something much greater than could have ever been dreamed under the old regime. The game of baseball can learn something from this chapter in modern world history.
I would propose a similar undertaking for professional baseball. Players who have in the past used performance-enhancing substances would have an opportunity during set period of time to make full disclosure and admission of their culpability. All league participants regardless of any previous accusation or evidence would be obliged to make these disclosures. In return for this complete and honest accounting, the player in question would be granted a full amnesty for their prior rules violations. These players would be eligible for all normal professional recognitions including all records, all awards, the Hall of Fame, although some notation of enhanced performance would need to be connected to their enshrinement. Players who failed to make truthful admission of their culpability and were later found to have engaged in performance-enhancing drug activities would be subject to the full force of all baseball rules including long-term suspension or expulsion from the league. These players would be stripped of any baseball records and awards in a fashion resembling the invalidation of an Olympic gold medal, with the medal and record being permanently reawarded to the next eligible player in any particular performance category.
Notwithstanding the Mitchell report (prepared, in my opinion, by one of the emptiest of empty suits), the stench of cheating still permeates the game, and the uncertainty with respect to the identity of actual participants threatens the credibility of future competition and makes continuing abuse of substances almost guaranteed. The amnesty proposal makes a lot more sense and holds out the chance for professional baseball to more perfectly embody and exemplify the most transcendental game of all the professional sports. I guess I’m one of those people that believes that game of baseball existed before it was invented, that the unique construction of a game emerged from somewhere deep within the human psyche, that the 27 outs captures a range of potential competitive outcomes that far exceeds anything seen any other sport. The game of baseball simply deserves better. If the shame and disgrace of the recent era is not fully exposed and driven out, it is only a matter of time until the game descends into a monumental farce from which recovery is impossible. I believe there is something eternal about the game of baseball and the game itself will undoubtedly survive, but we will refer to professional baseball in the same breath as professional Jai-Alai.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Beautiful post. I share the same feelings you do.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Curt what is happening to the game? Can anyone step up and restore the integrity of the greatest game in the world? I am 30 years old and have a 9 year old son who bleeds baseball. It is hard enough me being a hardcore Sox fan and having my babyboy walk around wearing pinstripes. (That is a therapy session all alone) I have no idea how to explain to him what is going on with the state of the game today. From the time my son was born I would tell him stories of the players that I grew up watching, some of the greats are still playing the game today. I grew up admiring Pete Rose, Doc Gooden, Nails Dykstra, Kirby Puckett, the Rocket, you and many other great ballplayers. I had explain issues from gambling, drugs, rape and now steroids. How can I explain all of this to him? How can you tell a child to stay away from cocaine and pots, but athletes test positive and get minor slaps on the wrists? Baseball banished Pete because he bet. What about the Strawberrys, Goodens, Becks and Howes? How many chances were they given? Baseball has been in trouble before many of us were ever born. Baseballs misconduct rule is a joke. Section F states “Conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and all other acts…) Are you serious? Baseball needs a complete makeover starting with a new commissioner. Baseball needs to go back in the history books and restore the records of the players that played the game clean and fair. I don’t understand how we can raise our children with the way baseball sets rules and standards. Gambling is bad and will not be allowed, but repeated drug use such as steroids and cocaine we can overlook. Do you really think our kids are going to kids are going to follow a Pete Rose path or a Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa path? My son looks at how far Sosa hits a ball or how many homers Bonds hit, not who got the tri-fecta at the Bellmont. Curt I thank you for being a rollmodel for kids today. I wish you could be around for many years to show the young kids that there is still good in baseball. I hope when your career is over you would take a larger active roll in restoring the game. You have been a strong voice during tough times for our game. I hope to one day see an honest, clean game. Thank you for everything you have given to baseball. You are an inspiration and a gift to the game and life.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
So, Clemens is now guilty until proven innocent? Is this the America you dream of? An America where anyone can make allegations about you and you should be damned unless you can prove you did not do something. Thank God our forefathers had a vision for a different American than you do.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Of all people to know, Mr. Schilling you are a phenomenal pitcher with superb command and movement on all pitches. I will preface what I have to say though with this: I am a Yankees fan. So although I may be bias, I believe my first sentence clarifies that I am a baseball fan as well. Anyhow, Roger Clemens has obviously been one of the greatest pitchers in this era, steroids or not. Yes, as a power pitcher steroids may have added some “giddy-up” to his fastball. Yet, his splitter does not come from speed, nor does his slider. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you too throw similar pitches, and to have the finesse that both of you possess, one needs more than just strength. To locate a 3-2 fastball, knee-high, on the outside corner, strength isn’t going to give that to you. For a splitter to look like a fastball coming in, but then wind up in the dirt, steroids isn’t going to do that.
For a batter, to hit a ball 400 ft. steroids will give you the edge, undoubtedly. But, to make contact with that pitch, have the level swing necessary, and the perfect form to hit a rising line drive over the wall, steroids won’t give you that.
I am too against the usage of steroids, but to be a major league ball player (let alone be Roger Clemens, David Justice, or even yourself) you can’t be all muscle. If that were the case, I believe the Angels might be interested in their Governor playing left field.
**I honestly do not expect a direct reply to this, I just wanted to state my opinion.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Curt-
Come on down off of your high horse and think about what you are saying. You are painting everyone listed in that report with an overly broad brush and insisting that they come out today and prove that they are innocent?
How can someone who is innocent of what someone has said about them with no evidence to prove that they are telling the truth? Doesn’t this become the highest stakes game of he said, he said that we have ever seen? I give those who have admitted to making mistakes, especially someone like Brian Roberts whom everyone said had the biggest beef of anyone in the Report, a lot of credit. But to take what someone with the past of Brian McNamee has said about Roger Clemens as 100% fact, and to insist Clemens prove otherwise is assinine. How can Clemens possibly prove that he DIDN’T do something 10 years ago, provide a receipt of what he didn’t do? I hope this isn’t some pathetic attempt to bump yourself up a couple of rungs with the members of Red Sox Nation by taking an unwarranted pot shot at a former Red Sox great who left and went on to have more success with other franchises.
As a professional athlete, you of all people should understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty. How many of your bretheren have been wrongly accused of rape, sexual assult, or getting someone pregnant because those making the accusations had ulterior motives? Would you ever insist that someone like Kobe Bryant prove their innocence? Look at the damage someone lacking credibility had on his reputation, even with more evidence than anyone has on Roger Clemens.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Curt is such a joke. You don’t know anything about what is going on and already you want Roger to give up his Cy Young Awards. Your a bigger idiot then all the Red Sox Nation. Should you give up your World Series Rings after all this after math? We don’t know that you did not take PED’s or steroids. Your trainer was not faced by the Mitchell Report. You could easily be considered. One- you always talk about this topic and Two- you bring this topic up. Now must of the people I know who do this about a certain topic seem to always be in the guilty party. So do you or have you taken a PED or steroid? Don’t reply to this because I guess I could look back at your bloody sock game and think how did he get over that injury so fast. Was it an illegal drug that allows you to recover faster? I and NO ONE will ever know because you never got drug tested.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
This is as unAMERICAN of a statement as I have ever read . Innocent until proven guilty Curt . Make the punk that made the statement about Mr. Clemens come up with a needle or a picture or other substantial proof . I can not believe you can stick up for Mr. Mitchells credability but not head Mr. Mitchells own advice witch was for us not to pre-judge . You have written this statement for your own justification to the statements you have made against Mr. Bonds and Mr. Canseco in the past . Be careful as to where the last stone fall Curt . I have yet to see you walk on water Curt . Be careful , someday you will be judged !
December 19th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
For me as a longtime fan, this all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Around the same time as Canseco was all the rage in the MLB, I was playing coach pitch; and yes, I had that massive uppercut swing and 33 on my back. I grew up watching Clemens pitch in Fenway, and Justice play for Atlanta, so this has all been an awakening as to how my childhood heroes were cheats. Yes, you could make the fact that up until they cheated they were great, but I’m done with both of them (Clemens & Justice) simply because they can’t even apologize for what they did. As a member of the Red Sox nation from Oklahoma, I wish the best to you Kurt, you are a TRUE athlete.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
I say that Curt Schilling used PED’s since he entered the league. By your way of thinking, you should have all your stats removed from the books UNLESS you can prove my claims are wrong. You can never prove they are not wrong. You cannot prove that in the secrecy of your home or hotel room that you were not using PED’s. Do you now see what a moron you are? It’s time that you take your washed up career elsewhere and just shut up.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Mr. Schilling,
I have a lot of respect for you as a player, a professional and a person. I have been a huge baseball fan since I was six years old and I have followed sports, baseball in particular very closely my whole life. This situation with the Mitchell report disappoints and saddens me as a fan and certainly as a father.
I would like to comment about what you have put out there with your blog though. This is a country where we and our children look up to and admire our sports “heroes”. This is also a country where the statements made from these heroes are subject to scrutiny and also not fairly taken within the context they often should be.
That being said, for you to make the statement: “From that point on the numbers were attained through using (performance-enhancing drugs). Just like I stated about Jose (Canseco), if that is the case with Roger, the four Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners, and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations.” is not very fair to Roger Clemens. Do you think there is even a small possibility that what Brian McNamee told the investigation could be to help his own cause? Do you think that because he had access to this particular athlete and he is a very huge name that he may have only used it in order to gain a more favorable situation for himself? If so then I think it would be wise, especially for someone who is in your situation, to reserve your judgment on this player. We live in a society in which we are innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around. I would think that the Mitchell Report should have had more concrete evidence than someone who is looking at serious problems with the law themselves saying that someone was involved with these substances.
There is no burden of proof on Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds or any other player to prove that what someone else has said about them is not true. There would be a burden of proof to refute any actual physical evidence and some of these players may need to defend themselves against that. But to this point, that is not the case with Roger Clemens so asking him to return his records and awards at this point is a bit premature.
I do not have a problem with any player’s name being listed in the report because this report is just outlining what was said during the investigation, not what absolutely happened. It is a fact that Brian McNamee told the commission what he told them. I would need to see physical evidence in order to know for certain that someone was involved with these substances though. I am not naive enough to need to have seen them take it to believe; but I am not taking someone’s word for it. They could be using the shock value of the big name in order to look like a valuable “witness” and gain favor for their own fate. The last time I checked, the Red Sox played in Boston Massachusetts and not Salem Massachusetts.
This is not fair to “call out” someone in the media like this at this point in time. I feel this may be a bit irresponsible. This has not been fair to the people involved regardless of whether I personally feel they were using these substances or not. Perhaps I am wrong, but these are my thoughts and I thought it needed to be said.
Respectfully
Kevin Judd
A Very Disappointed Fan of baseball
December 19th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
Curt,
I appreciate your passion on this subject. But as far as taking away Clemens Cy Youngs, that would be hard to do. Do we take back you and your teammates NL pennant in ‘93 because Dykstra was using? Where would it end?
The fact that Clemens and the rest of them have to live with it and be subject to public ridicule is punishment enough. Let’s concentrate on doing good things moving forward.
Mike
Mt. Pleasant, MI
December 19th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Dear Curt,
I USED to have respect for you even when you played for Philly, but to call out a legend like that when it is not your place to ever consider pulling that crap is ridiculous. He did refute it by saying that the ALLEGATIONS, which is all they are, were wrong and they he never took performance enhancing drugs at anytime. I have never heard such things out of a player or staff who states that they have full respect for them and owe their success to them, yet at the same time tell them that they are a lie and a cheat and to hand everything back. Why don’t you show some respect by treating him as the all-star performer that he still is and take a former teammates and friends side by standing behind him and his statement of refuting the allegations. After all, they are just allegations just like against Bonds, which means that nothing has ever been proven. There is no rhyme or reason for any player what so ever to ever come out or even mumble that statement about another player, especially one that you owe your credit to as you mentioned. Leave the disciplinary statements to the people who are employed to do that such as the Commissioner. Things like saying what you said can tarnish a man. Think about that next time!
December 19th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
My understanding of the legal system in the United States is that it’s based upon a presumption of innocence for an individual accused of a crime. Since no proof has been offered in the public record, by either Senator Mitchell’s investigation, or any other documentation that I’m aware of, short of the uncorroborated testimony of a single man threatened with prosecution and given a “proffer” which granted him immunity from prosecution for his testimony, your presumption of Roger Clemen’s guilt, until such time as he refutes the accusations against him in the report to your satisfaction by, as you would have done, filing a lawsuit for slander and libel, amounts to guilt by accusation, circumstantial evidence (Andy admitted taking HGH and Roger is his best friend), and trial by the press, none of which are in accord with the tenets of our system of laws. You’ve suggested that the accuser had an incentive to tell the truth inasmuch as a lie would subject him to the withdrawal of his immunity and subject him to prosecution, but what proof can be offered that he lied if indeed there is no proof that he’s telling the truth, and the matter would seem to be his word against Roger’s?
Moreover, when did it become the custom in our country to publicly brand an individual as guilty for a crime simply by the accusation of another, and when did it become necessary for that individual, any individual, to be forced to prove that he is not a criminal, a cheater, and be threatened with losing not only his reputation, but awards he may have won based upon his performance, as a result of the unsubstantiated testimony of another individual? If the Mitchell inquiry has documentation of Roger’s guilt, or corroboration of Brian McNamee’s testimony, then let them provide it to substantiate their claims and erase any doubt as to Roger Clemen’s guilt in the matter. If not, then one would have hoped for the decency on the inquiry’s behalf to have not named him publicly in the first place.
Alas, the damage is done, and not by proof, but by accusation and innuendo, with new media pundits now putting the onus upon the accused to prove their innocence, as in an authoritarian country, rather than the accusers offering proof of guilt, in the manner that our constitution’s 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments proscribe.
With your attitude toward this issue in your public pronouncements, it would seem rather appropriate, Mr. Schilling, that you play for the Boston Red Sox, given the proximity you have to the town of Salem. Shame on you, for not giving your fellow ballplayer the benefit of the doubt, and a double measure of shame for a professed conservative not understanding the very foundation of the rights upon which the United Sates is founded.
-C. Wyant, an American living in Sydney, Australia
December 19th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
George Mitchell (a Director with the Boston Red Sox) based his report on the testimony of an individual facing extreme coercion from Federal officials. In response, Clemens issued a statement that he never used performance enhancing drugs.
Guess what Schill……..until proven otherwise, I’ll take Roger at his word every time.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Curt
This is all pompous grandstanding so you can call attention to yourself in the twilight of your professional career. I have a former minor leaguer from the Seattle farm system i work with on a daily basis and he quotes for a fact that EVERYONE in the system knew Clemmens was on the juice, along with many other so-called ’stars’. He had a very close relationship with David Segui who came right out and told the entire minor league lockerroom that using steroids had ruined his body.
YOU CALLING OUT CLEMMENS IS A JOKE. You probably took the stuff yourself, you hypocrite. You throw a ball for a living while the majority of american works real jobs. You play a kids game and use that platform to portray yourself up as some articulate know-it-all mouthpiece.
No one takes your childish banter anywhere near as serious as you do.
-Dr Manhattan
December 19th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
Curt,
I am sure you will be vilified by your peers for your comments; I as a fan of the game applaud you for speaking out. If more pros would step out on the carpet AGAINST PED’s, then maybe we can restore the image that baseball is America’s National past time.
From all of the interviews and stories I’ve read or heard, it doesn’t matter to the average fan who is implicated in the Mitchell Report. Bonds should still go to the HoF, as should “the Rocket”. I say no, not if their records are tainted by PED’s. Imagine the messages that we would be sending to the kids that are trying to be great. Imagine the publics perception, that pros are above the law. I think the publics acceptance of the “stars” doing “nothing” wrong, no matter how illegal it is, is a small indication of what is causing the moral decline in America as we speak.
And, for the record, even as a die hard SOX fan, I have the utmost respect for guys like Pettite or Roberts for coming clean and admitting their “mistakes”. If all could make the same leap, maybe we can put this behind us.
Thanks for Everything Curt,
Ken P
December 19th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
I agree with Schilling’s words regarding Clemens and the fact that our options as fans are now very limited. There is not a place in baseball for steroids and performance enhancing drugs. Cheating is cheating, however, I believe that the Mitchell Report only touched the very tip of the ice-berg. I dont think that the investigation was completed in full and therefore does not end the problems that steroids have brought to baseball.
In a discussion amongst fans last night I think we found some good points, supported by some wings and beer of course.
Baseball is not tarnished by this scandal as much as all of us first thought. It appears that there were so many players taking performance enhancing drugs that, unfortunately, it leveled the playing field. Clemens should not have to give up his Cy Young Awards and Barry is still the homerun king. This report solidified our biggest fear, this is a huge issue, not just tied to a few “super humans”.
We no longer have to take away these awards because how many pitchers who were throwing to him were on drugs? How many pitchers (on roids or not) were facing hitters that were users? If everyone was using, then how were there advantages for any one given player.
There is one problem though. What about the players who really were clean. They did not achieve any playing advantage however, I leave you with this. They have their health, they have their name, and they have the ability to play with those users without going down to their level. If we want to put together a report, lets release the names of the players who baseball should celebrate for keeping their talent raw…
Thanks to all players like yourself Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Endless Rants, Verbal Diarrhea, Jock Perspective.
There is nothing more soothing and yet comical after a long hard day at a REAL job than to read your opinions.
Thank you
Once again you have stepped in a pile of Shilling.
Keep it up!
December 19th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
You know what? I have more to say. If, on the very slim chance, you didn’t take steroids, then you knew people that did. And you’re trying to play this whole thing off as if ‘Oh Clemmens needs to refute this report’
You know he took the juice. You know other players took the juice, and I would bet five dollars american currency that you watched and probably helped other players take the juice.
I find it unlikely you shared a lockerroom with all these players and saw nothing
December 19th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
“the 4 Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations.”
What happened to the idea that one is innocent until proven guilty? It seems to me that the burden of proof is on those making the accusations, not on Roger.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Here’s one dad who took the Clemens story to heart. A little over reactive, but hey, it beats cheating
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AaM5Fo9OEmo
December 19th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
So Clemens has to prove his innocence, versus someone proving him guilty? It’s that simple?
BTW, your comparison of Clemens and Bonds is simply myopic. The moat surrounding Bonds is deep and wide, from ex-girlfriends, to ex-trainers, to Conte, to hat size. Clemens has one accuser. One. No evidence. No corroborating witnesses. None.
And not only that, but are you also going to ask the Hall of Fame to remove all players that have cheated? Scuffed and greased balls from pitchers? Curt – have you ever scuffed a baseball? Used a little sticky-stuff to get a better grip? Seriously? Was it cheating to you…or just you trying to get an advantage??? Because scuffing or using substances has been illegal for some time.
What about those that took greenies back in the day – should they be kicked out of the HOF? It gave them an edge, supposedly anyway. Let’s get another investigation started.
And what about those not implicated in this supposed unbiased report? After all, the list was supposedly not comprehensive. Should an air of suspicion be cast over every homerun hitting, fastball-throwing baseball player of this era? HGH can’t be tested. And so we rely only on this report, containing a list of players based on testimony from one witness, and suddenly, everyone is guilty if in the report, but innocent if not???
Finally, I’m not a Yankee hack – I live in Minnesota. It’s just that, this report is political cover for so many people, from the commissioner to the owners to the union (I think you’re part of that group…), etc. The hue and cry against Clemens based on one shady person’s word just doesn’t do it for me. And for you to point fingers…shame on you. You are certainly not innocent. You and every major league baseball player that turned the other way when they could have had courage to say something years ago…don’t now, after this weak report, jump on the condemnation bandwagon.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Curt, I enjoy reading your thoughts and have always respected the way in which you speak your mind. From a fan’s point of view, I believe that if a player used performance enhancing substances, then he has cheated the game of baseball and it’s historical past. I am sure that many of the players who were named in this report are great people outside of the game, so I also can forgive them pending a public apology or some form of explanation of why they used a drug. Hopefully others will soon come out and either admit what they did or fight to clear their name if they are indeed innocent. Anyways, thanks again for the great article, I look forward to more.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
I was just curious, but wasn’t all the accusations starting FROM the 1998 season instead of the 1997 season(first year with the Blue Jays and 4th Cy Young)? So assuming that the accusations are true, then shouldn’t Roger still hold 4 Cy Youngs instead of 3?
As for whether or not Roger used roids or not, I’m personally not sure because several side effects of using roids didn’t appear. Anyone who continued to use roids after the testing started in either 04 or 05 is just stupid because that is asking to be tested positive. If Roger did suddenly stop using roids in the 04 season (his last Cy young), then techincally one or both scientific side effects should appear- 1) his performance suffers tremendously or 2) he gets huge injuries from the lack of adaptation within the body. However, neither happened as he continued to sail along in the 05 season with a godly ERA and nearly 200 IP.
So IMO, if there is at least a few Cy Youngs that to me are for sure credibile, they are the 86,87,91,97,04 seasons.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Curt, I respect you.
It takes a man with great conviction and self-assurance to write what you did.
When most players are hiding under a rock, hoping this issue goes away, you expressed your opinion.
And for that, I have the utmost respect for you. Merry Christmas!
December 19th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
I just read the article on mlb.com, and proceeded to follow to this page. I read through your article, and was inclined to sign up so I could post. I must say I totally agree with you. I find it despicable that so many professional baseball players have used performance enhancing drugs. At the same time, I respect Roberts and Pettite for being man enough to admit their wrong doings. I hope Clemens is truly innocent, and this is not another case of Palmero…which made me sick.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Answer this for me if you can. If an Olympic athlete can be stripped of his/her medals than why can’t MLB take records and awards (such as Cy Young’s) if and only when a player has been found to have used illegal methods according to MLB drug testing? If MLB has one of the toughest policies then players should know that whatever they choose to do will effect their entire reputation including their awards, stats, and records. Implications are just that implied that someone did something. But if you are found guilty then you should face the concequences of your actions.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Your a hypocritical #@$@. These guys in the report must blah blah blah. George Mitchell is blah, blah, blah, you MUST take him at face value. Roger Clemens must give back Cy Youngs? Yet look at your last friggin statement, “I pray that anyone in the report is innocent.”
Screw you. You’ve already said their guilty. Most haven’t tested positive. Most are he said she said cases, totally circumstantial. How can they “Clear” their names to your “godly” satisfaction oh fellow forty year old pitcher who has enjoyed his best years late in his career when all non-juiced players are showing signs of aging?
I’m not even a Roger Clemens fan but if he has to turn over his Cy Youngs then you need to turn over your world series rings because there is no way you can ever prove to ME beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have never used a PED. Furthermore, those of you who weren’t named doesn’t make you right. People like you, Albert Pujols, Randy Johnson, Jason Varitek, Brady Anderson, Matt Stairs, Eric Chavez, Nomar Garciaparra etc may continue to play into your 40’s and better than you did when you were 30; may have had that one or two 30 or 40 or 50 home run seasons but don’t come out and sing that your lily white and everyone else is a liar or a cheat. In what steroidless or HGHless planet do you pitch better at the end of a season in your 40’s than did Nolan Ryan? In what drug free league does Sammy hit 60 3 times and Brady Anderson hit 50 once? You “innocent” asses were the problem if you were innocent. You knew that teammates of yours were using before this drug testing shit came along and said nothing at the time. Whether it was Kruk or Darren Daulton you kept your mouth shut, took whatever “vitamins” you needed and as a team you went out and used your physically enhanced selves to win more games, strike out more batters, get one more inning out of your tired arm, get one more homer a week. Now all of a sudden you’re the good guy? i should believe you but not Clemens? I should believe that not one guy named in that report got the shaft? That they were the only ones doing it. That because your name isn’t on it you never did shit. Screw you. Philly was my team from childhood. From Steve Carlton and Mike Schmidt through you and Daulton Philly was my team. What happened to you? Now you think your some sort of pseudo-intellectual politician who has the right to talk @#!$ about everyone but anyone accuses you of DOCTORING your sock and you go absolutely batty.
Go away Curt. Retire before you join Rafael Palmeiro as a proven liar. Everyone who pretends they are “do-gooders” generally turn out to be the worst people you ever encounter. I’m assuming that because a retired moron of a senator on the payroll of the Red Sox can name Yankee stars without proof that it will be ok for the next commissioner chosen panel to choose a Yankee board member to find out who the “Dr. Drug” was in the Red Sox clubhouse. Until all the names of every single cheat who ever played the game of baseball are available and the proof verifiable then SHUT UP! Barry Bonds is #@Q$#% because he lied to a grand jury. When Clemens is found guilty in a court of law then you can dance on my grave but for now don’t have the nerve to feed me @##! and call it apple pie.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
egomaniacal blowhard, and I’m actually a Sox fan
December 19th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
I respect your opinion for its apparent frankness because you are a MLB player and therefore have experience and interests relevant to the subject that others do not have. To be clear, I do not respect your opinion for its seeming frankness alone. The pretense of outspokenness is not in short supply nowadays.
That said, your opinion, like that of most Americans, appears to be based entirely on
1) Your “feelings,” which (at least according to the evidence in your post) have not been subjected to any rigorous or even casual test for correlation with reality or principle; and
2) Grotesquely flawed, although quite typical, rationalization that dismisses all evidence (and rejects all principles principles) not in accord with the desired outcome.
With all due respect — and when I say this, I am not in the slightest attacking your beliefs and convictions — this kind of self-justifying pseudo-thought seems best to fit the whitened sepulcher, reactionary formula that feeds religious ideology. That’s not to say that the ideology is wrong. You can come to the right conclusion by the wrong method.
And the wrong method here is to violate the very important principle of humility. This is not only a central Christian virtue but a scientific and analytic one as well. An overwhelming temptation among humans — among all sentient beings — is to elevate one’s own experience, or even more egregious, one’s own ideas based on that experience, above the entire weight of reality and morality.
In the end the Bible teaches us (at least where it doesn’t contradict this very lesson) that thinking too much of oneself and one’s own impressions, prejudices, and interests (petty or grand) is to degrade yourself and all you may influence. And the Bible shows how a king, who lives in a rarified world, can misuse and abuse his influence among those who will never taste that world. David.
Humility starts with shutting up, and shutting up all those “feelings” and personal interests and prejudices, and accepting the fact that you are but a speck. And as a conscious speck that acts in the world, your moral responsibility is to examine facts and principles in a rigorous and thoroughgoing manner that vigorously challenges in the strongest possible way your own predelictions. And most, maybe all, people cannot do this — especially those that have a bully pulpit (with pretensions to sacred righteousness) that lets them influence thousands or millions of their brethren. Including those who are more innocent or more worthy than themselves.
You hold yourself out and celebrate yourself as a Christian. You honor Andy Pettite for doing the same and quite explicitly include that, along with your persoanal affection for him, among your reasons for praising rather than condemning his role in the Mitchell report. Yet it is inescapable that your project is as unChristian and unAmerican as any endeavor can be.
Your opinions are not mere personal asides, they disseminate and multiply, touching the experience of thousands of millions of unseen innocents. You inflame and encourage all to bypass reason, urging them to rely on your insider opinion instead of their own moral compass.
And how do you use that influence?
To urge all to accept George Mitchell’s authority and credibility based on your flimsy secondhand say-so.
To claim that failure of a public person to sue for defamation equates to an admission of guilt. (If you were to follow through on your “what if” scenario, you would lose on the face of it because you are, as you well know, a public person and therefore almost perfectly barred from succeeding in a defamation suit.)
To encourage all who value your “feelings” to treat those named in this report as scapegoats whose banishment, shame, and ruination will justify and cleanse your industry.
You are not clean. You are fallen. You value your own feelings and opinions infinitely more than you value facts and principles. You use your station as celebrity (albeit superbly accomplished) and self-proclaimed Christian not to urge and promote reason, civility, communality, and adherence to Constitutional and charitable principles but to condemn others and implicitly hold yourself up as the comparative city on a hill.
You knit your brow and “feel” your righteous way to a set of opinions that verge on and urge others to adopt a totalitarian methodology. I assume you wrent your garments and examined your conscience and sought divine guidance before spouting off in this fashion. Isn’t it a coincidence that your little essay turned out to be entirely in line with what your ego would have demanded?
You are deluded and on a false path. You should examine more than your conscience, since there is no evidence that a genuine one any longer exists in your heart; what you think of as a conscience is mere guile.
Vanity, Mr. Schilling. Has the thought “There but for the grace of God go I” ever entered your heart or mind unless its object was a pitiful wretch? The obvious is not the point.
I am sorry. I believe you are neither smart enough nor courageous enough to be a Christian. You are simply shifty enough to be a munificently rich majoritarian. You will doubtless do well in politics. You will not do so well when your life is done.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
You know what curt shilling, I dont like you, I never have. I am a believer that you are not a hall of famer and I fight that argument with a very strong argument. I find your blog pretentious and your act tired. We can only listen to you rant for so long about things so trivial and unimportant. I was happy to see the Redsox resign you though, because it means the Yankees will continue to tee off on you and your aging fastball.
I will give this to you though, I agree with your post about the Mitchell Report and the players named in it. How can the names in this report be considered genuine to the game if what they were doing was completely disingenuous and made a mockery of the games integrity? What I would propose is not as harsh as yours, but everyone labeled in the report would have an asterisk placed next to their name, if found guilty or admitted to use of Steroids Post ‘98 and HGH post ‘95. And when hall of fame voting is to take place on said players only their numbers prior to their usage should be considered for vote.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Mr. Schilling,
My name is Vicki Jones and I’m from VA,…I have been a huge baseball fan since I could walk, and a Yankees fan at that. I have to admit you’re absolutely correct with your feelings and opinions about Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds,..they should both give up any of their title’s that they’ve earned, but not only them,..I’ll take it a step further and say that Mark McGuire should give up his homerun record and title as well,.. that record belongs to Roger Maris and his family,..and if someone breaks it honestly then and only then will I say that it will no longer belong to Roger Maris!! Anyone who has to use any kind of Steroids whether it be PED’s or HGH’s should not only have to give up thier title’s but should be 100% banned from baseball unless they’ve admitted what they’ve done and asked for forgiveness or have been 100% completely cleared of all charges! Honestly it breaks my heart and my love for baseball to hear about all of the players who’ve had to stoop so low as to use/abuse steroids. I just don’t understand of how players like Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, Yogi Berra, Ted Williams, Bill “Moose” Skowron, Ron Guidry, you Curt Schilling, Randy Johnson, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Don Mattingly, Paul O’Neal, George Brett, and soo many other greats NEVER would have thought of using any kind of drug inhancements to have furthered themselves in the great game of baseball, but yet the players of today do,..it just makes me sick to my stomach to see the game of baseball destroyed by players who do use drug inhancements! Players and fans alike have to take a stand against anyone who uses drug performance inhancers of any kind, and we need to work to get baseball back to the way it used to be when the “GREATS” played,..we need it to be fun, exciting, and pure,..I’m not sayin in anyway that baseball isn’t fun, or exciting, to watch or play,.. I just want it back to the way it used to be,.I’m sure you remember the 60’s 70’s and 80’s when baseball was at it’s best, and I can only imagine how much you’d like to have back that way as well,..just with a little more money :0). Mr. Schilling,..as I said at the beginning I’m a huge Yankees fan,..but I give credit where credit is due,..and you and the rest of the Redsox did an outstanding job the past season, and I want to CONGRATULATE you and the rest of the Redsox team on your World Series win, and I can’t wait to see the Redsox and Yankees face off against each other in 2008,..I’m sure it’ll be great just like it always is! I hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!
Sincerely Yours,
Vicki Jones
PS One more thing I say that Pete Rose be reinstated in baseball, and be PERMITTED to be in theCopperstown Baseball Hall of Fame,..I don’t feel that his betting is any worse than using Steroids,…and he has admitted his betting and asked for forgiveness, and if players can admit to using steroids and be allowed to continue playing, and have the opportunity to be in the Cooperstown Baseball Hall of Fame shouldn’t Pete Rose?!? Pete Rose has done more for the game of baseball than over half of the guys who’ve used steroids,..the commissioner of baseball needs to get his head on straight and do the right thing when it comes to Pete Rose,…he needs to give credit where credit is due, and get over the fact the Pete betted on baseball and his team,..if he can forgive all of the steroid users and permit them to play,..then he should be able to forgive Pete Rose and allow him to be accepted into the Cooperstown Baseball Hall of Fame,..I’d love to hear your opinion on this subject!
If you read this I’d like to say THANK YOU!
December 19th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Curt,
As a youth, teen and former HS coach, this report has me very troubled. I’ve been scratching my head over the best way to explain it to my players when they bring it up. Another aspect I am not looking forward to is settling dugout arguments between kids over who used PEDs. What a distraction that will be!
Any thoughts?
Jim Dubela
Stratham, NH
December 19th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
It is completely irritating to me as I constantly year in and year out listen to you rant and rave about the wrongs & rights of the game. As a fan of this wonderful game for nearly 3 decades I have seen the good the bad and the ugly. From Dave Parkers problems in the 70’s to now. Mr Schilling, all I hear you do is complain about this and that. You have no basis for any of your comments. The way you have called out Clemens is so… repulsive is the only word I can think of. This is your mentor so to speak, a colleague, and more importantly a icon in the great game. If he says that he is innocent, let the facts come out before you, of all people disgrace his career.
Is this just another one of your ploys to get attention?? All your career , you have played second fiddle to some of the biggest names in baseball. You didn;t quite have the stuff it took to rub shoulders with those guys did ya? So you did the next best thing, you ran your mouth. Did whatever it took to get the camera on you! Mr. Drop Your Head in ‘93, Mr. Bloody Ankle in ‘04. Come on Curt! If you would just let you pitching do the talking, you would be afraid you would again come up short to being a superstar. Granted you have three rings. And granted you were a major contributor to those teams. But you are flat! You don;t quite have the look to be a playboy like Jeter or A-Rod, the numbers are not HOF worthy, and your skills are fading fast.
Yes you my friend are a attention whore!! Get however you can. Through BS charity work, or running your mouth about any topic you get a chance. When you are all said and done, people will never remember the 4 WS, the 3 rings, the WS MVP, they will say “That guy was an attention whore”
The Dennis Rodman of baseball at best.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Kind of a hypocrite, seeing as how you used steroids, aren’t you? Maybe you should give up your awards….oh wait…
December 19th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Curt,
I had once heard that “70%” of lineman in the NFL use PED’s (Performance Enhancing Drugs); it seems that if that were true you’d see names “flying off the shelf,” but that is just not the case. Could it be that we are just not sure how many people there are out there doing PED’s, and that they may show up in “all shapes and sizes!?”
Being someone who has always tried to maintain a high level of fitness, and even considered steroids when I was young (never acting on it), I can only imagine the pressure and expectation at your level to not only maintain a performance “standard” but a paycheck as well!? Although this is not validation for using, don’t we as a society have to check in with the expectations we place on our entertainers, athletes, etc. I think that there is a level of thinking going on in this country that because many people in the entertainment world make such large amounts of money, that there becomes an entitlement on the part of the fan to figuratively say “entertainers (athletes) should play by any means necessary to make the money we spend on entertainment, mean more?!”
I have followed your career ever since Yavapai (I attended ‘86-’88), and I must say you have always played so strongly to the mental side of the game; having perservered through injury in the midst of having millions of people watching you perform. I believe that what we have seen in the last 20 years of baseball in particular, has been an unwillingness to gain the mental integrity needed in sport; people who are unwilling to either back away (retire) from the sport altogether due to emotional connection, or re-focus, coming back to the sport with a new look (figurative), desire, spirit. I think as the “mind” goes in sport so shall the integrity of the sport in question.
I thank you for letting me muse…
With much gratitude,
Timothy
(Peoria, AZ.)
December 19th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Curt ,
Why are you always talking about the other players ?
Just play the game …………..
Dont worry about what other players do , JUST PLAY THE GAME !
December 19th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
This, to me, is just another one of those thing. Sure, the system is broken. It will be very hard to fix because it is hard to find a test. There are two things that bother me about this report. The first is how sad it is to me that people do this. I wish that they didn’t and that they didn’t feel the need to do so.
The second is that after their names have been made public, even if they are cleared, there will ALWAYS be a question in people’s minds. That is what bothers me most about this. Thanks for your thoughts.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Great post Curt.
I believe that Selig and Fehr should be the ones held responsible because they fostered the environment. They encouraged it. They knew that there was a problem (I knew about this stuff in the early 80s in High School) with PEDs and they turned the other way so that they didn’t interfere with the additional revenue being created by the increase in homers and runs scored thereby telling the players that it was alright to use PEDs. In fact, the players were encouraged to do so by their silence. In other words, yeah everyone knows about PEDs (a few players and legit team trainers came forward) and you know what, we are closing our eyes to it and hey, if it helps you players blast 500 foot dingers and increase attendance to 35k a game, great!
I truly believe that they decided they would deal with this “problem” when they (Selig and Fehr) got caught and guess what? They finally did, and now they don’t want to shoulder the blame.
The players did break the law, no denying that. But to suspend players with the information in this report would be ridiculous. To spend a single dollar more to go back in time to dig up more dirt is a waste. Invest in the future and in proper testing that way the testing created can stay a step ahead of the dealers/users (”trainers”/”players’) and we don’t have to worry about “oil based” or “water based” PEDs. No super PEDs that help you stay a step ahead. Test the players year round, hold them accountable with rules and testing that will put the fear of God in them. If they use and are caught they lose a year without pay (162 games not the rest of a season). A second time gone for life.
The players get the added bonus of having their careers tarnished and may suffer health problems from the use of PEDs even the readily available Andro. What we need in this country are leaders that are not afraid to lead. By standing idly by Selig and Fehr failed to do their job and they helped create and grow a serious problem. They should be tossed out on their respective behinds. Lets get someone to lead Baseball and set the standards and enforce those standards in the “BEST INTEREST OF THE GAME”. Not for the sake of attendance or profits.
I am a Baseball fan and will always be a Baseball fan. I just want to believe, in my heart, that there is some integrity and honesty left on the field. That when a guy blasts a walk off homer to win a game in the bottom of the ninth I want to know that he didn’t have an unfair advantage.
Thats all I’ve got to say, I just worked a 13 hour shift and need to get some sleep.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
First time responder, long time reader. I agree that each person has thier own thoughts and preconcieved notions as to the guilt or innocense of any particular player. My point of this writing is not to debate guilt or innocense, it is to comment on those who already have admitted guilt. Whether it was just a “one time mistake” or someone who used PED’s for a long time, cheating is cheating and taking illegal drugs is still against the law. For those who admit guilt, I feel some sort of punishment is due…whether that be community service, heavy fines, jail time (one or any combination of the 3). If myself or any other normal Joe Citizen were to do what these Pro Athletes have done, we certainly would not be able to get away with just the “it was only 1 time” or “I am sorry” routine.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Cheaters are everywhere, including the HOF. It is part of the history. If they take the cheaters down, they sure as hell better crucify Bud Selig and the owners for letting it happen. The players were the sympton, not the problem.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
David Justice has stepped up to clear his name and his story seems feasible or rings true although who can ever know for sure. But just had to ammend the “No one has…” statement. Excellent blog though with great insight. What I don’t understand and sort of what Justice alluded to in his response, why don’t players who are guilty just admit to using HGH. I remember in the 90s seeing it advertised not only for body builders but just for people trying to stay young. Advertisements would say that celebrities paid big $ for injections but now you too could have the same benefits with this pill. But there was no mention of it being a steriod. Now it’s considered on that level but as a fan it wouldn’t bother me if Clemens used HGH as much as if he used steriods because use of it was not hidden, illegal or considered harmful. Like Creatine or other legal body building supplements. Now using HGH would be seen as cheating, then how could it be? So come clean on that even if you did worse. Also another point that is really not fair to Clemens, Bonds, Sheffield, etc. I have to believe as you’ve stated that so many more players are guilty of cheating in mlb and other sports. But in the fans eyes, Clemens and Bonds take the fall for all of them because they accomplished so much more than any of them. I heard a story about Bonds and Griffey talking at a dinner told by a third party. Bonds was upset at what McGwire accomplished because he knew he cheated. So he decided to do the same. In a way he blew up the game and even more so than Canseco brought it to a place where there was no choice but to try and clean it up. Not to be fans of these guys cheating, I just think the blame has to be thrown at the game, not just these two and for Clemens or Bonds to come forward and have their entire legacy taken away, beyond what’s already been done, is asking alot when they both know the cheating has gone on so far beyond them.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
How’s that whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing working out for you?
Last time I checked, it’s up to baseball to definitively prove that he did use something before we take away any awards.
Stick with pitching, you’re better at it than thinking
December 19th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Curt,
Why do you give a pass to the light users of steroids? Ala Brian Roberts? Is it because he is as you say “a nice guy”?
It seems to me the theme for the named users and abusers of steroids and HGH is I only did it once or twice. You are trying to slice a pie that can’t be sliced, either your an abuser or not. What constitutes an abuser? Using an illegal drug. You know as well as I do that these Steroid abusers all had a chance to speak to Mitchell and they chose not to. So they get no tears from me. Imagine if they had gone before Mitchell and explained what happened? We could choose to believe them, but having to get the truth out of them, by pulling teeth, means they are not being truthful now.
I find it disgusting that baseball is going to allow Roberts, Tajada or any of
the other abusers walk on the field. Shame on you for supporting any of them, shame on MLB as well.
I think the fans should sue MLB for there WCW potrayal of Baseball. I would rather have a drunken Mantle or Ruth than a steroid abusing, self exorbed ball player like Clemens or Bonds. Baseball has become fakeball, until you, all the players, team owners and everyone involved kick the abusers out, come up with a more stringent testing program, it will always be fakeball, what a shame.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
umm…what about that whole “presumed innocence” thing? How exactly would one go about proving innocence. It seems like eventually this will all come down to “No I didn’t, Yes you did”. All players mentioned appear to have been tried, convicted and condemned by the court of public opinion; not the most lenient bunch of judges and jurors out there.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Hi Curt,
I’m really glad to hear what you think about the current steroid allegations against some players. What really bothers me is that I keep hearing a lot of people saying that it is not fair to penalize or name a few players without naming the others. I think this is a stupid argument. It is like saying that you can;t prosecute a bank robber because the other 7 or 8 robbers that were robbing the bank with him weren’t named or caught. This is a very poor argument and doesn’t make any sense. It is even worse when some of these people say that they would still vote for certain “cheaters” that are found guilty using steroids because these cheaters weren’t the only ones using it. By doing this they end up rewarding these cheaters and penalizing the players who played the game fairly. Sometimes it is just hard to understand the world today. How can something wrong be right at the same time?
Well, thanks again for expressing your thoughts.
May God bless you and your family and have a Merry Christmas!
Paulo (Brazilian Red Sox fan)
December 20th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Hey Curt,
Great post. What I admire most is your candid, unguarded and raw approach to stating your points. I tend to agree with most of what you said. It’s difficult to have to believe that all of these guys that have been named, have cheated at some point in their careers.
I certainly agree about Andy Pettitte. I don’t know enough about Brian Roberts or Gary Bennett to have an opinion. But, I suspect (i.e. have a gut feeling), that you’re right about those guys too. That they truly have “come clean”. Sure, it’s because they were caught, but as you can see by the rest of these guys, getting caught does not necessarily translate to coming clean.
Curt, I guess the one question I have for you is this “Do you really believe in your heart of hearts that there is really even the slightest possibility that Barry and Roger are clean? I mean – just look at the before and after pictures. Look at the performance trends.
As a professional athlete, you understand as well as anyone that the human body has it’s limitations when it comes to aging. The fact is – you reach a point where you begin to decline. Your own continued high level of performance wasn’t the result of your fastball increasing in speed. It was more so based on finesse and cunning. You knew how to fool hitters.
I’m sad to say, not as a specific team;s fan, but as a baseball fan – as much as it hurts to want to admit to myself that anyone in baseball was a drug cheater, that it is simply obvious. I know what my gut tells me, and it’s based on all of the evidence, which is a great deal more than circumstantial in my opinion.
That said, I agree with you that Roger and Barry should forfeit their awards, accolades and statistics. In Barry’s case, I believe it will happen because I believe he will be found guilty and will spend some time in prison. He will never get into The Hall, and thanks to Mark Ecko, he will forever be remembered as a cheater. Sadly, the only hard evidence against Roger is his word against McAnamee’s, and he knows it. So he will continue to lie through his teeth and he will ultimately get away with it, unless there is hard written or visual evidence that we don’t know about. I suspect there isn’t.
In any case, it’s a shame for baseball, but not more so than guys like Hank Aaron, Pedro Martinez, Mark Mulder, Randy Johnson – each of which has essentially had a major award taken away from them at the hands of a cheat.
Best regards and happy holidays to you and your family.
Sean
December 20th, 2007 at 12:01 am
I’ve been a Redsox fan for more than 40 years. Roger Clemens always seemed to be the ideal kind of pitcher for me to get behind. His toughness, mental and physical, was always impressive and it was a lot of fun to watch his career unfold.
This business about him using some sort of performance-enhancing drug is very disturbing. I hope it’s not true, but the evidence presented so far makes me wonder.
It’s hard to not think back to the old days and compare pitchers then with these steroid-enhanced mutants we see today… heck, the worst things they did in the old days were to try to smear mud on the ball so the batter couldn’t see it, or maybe doctor it up a little with some spit or tobacco juice.
Of course, cheating’s cheating, but when I look at guys like Bonds and McGuire and Sosa – guys who barely resemble human beings when they take off their shirts – the “records” they’ve set or broken don’t mean much. Let’s get some perspective.
If Roger Maris deserves an asterisk, these guys deserve to have their “records” tossed out the window, baseball needs to corporately clean up its act so I can die knowing that there is some integrity in a game I have loved all my life.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:01 am
I have a question, Mr. Schilling. It was widely reported that you were a tobacco addict earlier in your career. You used tobacco, on and off the field. You told the press you had a hard time quitting tobacco. Now, we all know tobacco is legal. But we also know it is a deadly, disgusting and incredibly addicting DRUG. My question is simply “Why did you use tobacco?” Can you explain to your fans what tobacco did for you during the long game day. Did it give you a little buzz. A little ‘pick me up’ to last in between those long innings? Can you look us in the virtual eye and tell us you didn’t use tobacco do enhance your performance? Just a little bit? Maybe… just once or twice? My point is that all athletes are cheaters, whether it be “just a little pinch between the cheek and gum” (like Johnny Bench used to pitch it to us) or just a little hit off the HGH or just a little rub of “the clear”, or just a little Advil. Nobody in professional sports is playing the game completely drug free.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:03 am
Curt,
As a pitching instructor I am a fan of the art of pitching. I am also an exercise physiologist. I have also been a fan of the hard throwing pitchers in the show. Other than the healing aspect of performance enhancers, how much do you really think they help a pitcher? Roger threw upper 90s his whole career and is only “rushing” it up to low to mid 90’s now. Sure perfomance enhancers help in recovery for pitchers, but not sure about actual performance. You know that you have to locate and change speeds to be effective. Having said that, if Roger or any other pitcher for that matter, not having tested positve at any point, how much do you think they would benefit? Bonds went from a 185 lb. lead off hitter to a 245 lb. power hitter. He looks like he could do pretty well in the Mr. America contest. Roids definitely make you stronger with the bat and makes the lazy F-8s leave the yard. I personally hope Roger is not lying to us. His fans. I pitched in college and idolized him as many other people did. From a performance stand point I think there is a disitinct difference between Roger and Bonds. If they are guilty, it is truly a shame. I am no fan of Bonds, but they both could have been they greatest hitter and pitcher of our time even without the drugs. To me there is no doubt about Bonds, I just hope that Roger has been on the up and up. Did you hear the one about the bloody sock was due to the puncture wound from the needle you used to shoot roids in the playoffs? What a joke. Good luck this year and get yourself another ring.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:04 am
I wish Curt would talk less about players! That way when you feel bad a day or two later you will not have to say “I am sorry…that came out that way”
December 20th, 2007 at 12:05 am
WOW!
That is a LOT to take in.
I certainly respect your opinion on this, since I only have the view from the fan side (all via the media). It can’t be easy watching friends and past “co-workers” get named and have their lives ripped apart. It has to even affect you in that way, as you see the pain these people are dealing with, which the everyday fan does not.
I really hope that Mr. Clemens is able to clear his name. While I didn’t “like” that he pitched for the Yankees, I NEVER stopped being a Roger Clemens fan. Unlike some fans, I like to keep my connections to players I enjoy watching when they stop playing/working for Boston teams. Drew Bledsoe, Ray Bourque, Nomar Garciaparra, Terry Glenn, and even coaches, Bill Parcells, Jim O’Brien, Jimy Williams, Grady Little, etc, just to name a few.
Gotta admit though, the evidence that is available currently looks bad for Mr. Clemens.
Thanks for your take on this Curt.
Kevin
December 20th, 2007 at 12:06 am
i completely agree with you that players who have used performance enhancing drugs should be held responsible for their actions regardless of whether or not someone likes the player. if clemens did lie then he should be punished in the same way that bonds has been punished. a test for hgh should be implemented as soon as possible because according to the BALCO founder, players have used hgh in order to be able to take lower doses of anabolic steroids
December 20th, 2007 at 12:07 am
Curt,
I just want to know, aren’t you suppose to be vacationing or doing winter workout during the offseason? Seems to me that you have too much time on your hands, having your own website, getting in everybody’s buisness with this whole Mitchell Report subject. We all know that most of them are quilty, so who needs your insight. I guess moving over to Boston made you feel like a kid again. Never heard a peep out of you before you got traded to Boston, and now all of sudden you have something to say about everything that goes on in MLB. We can rest assure that if their is any contriversy going on, that you will speak up and be heard. Don’t you think it’s time to step down out of the limelight? I think you had your glory days back when you were so miraculous in the 2004 post season, with the bloody sock!!!! Get over yourself, your a has been, and please, quit running your mouth, nobody wants to hear your crap unless, of course they are a Sox fan. Baseball is a beautiful game, a great game, and it’s athlete’s like you that can’t leave well enough alone, that turn some of us fans away from pro sports all together.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:09 am
It’s interesting to the varying responses by the players in terms of the Mitchell Report so far.
I’m to the point where I have come to an acceptance that everyone in sports may or may not be clean, and I will accept it as is. Baseball is simply a form of entertainment for me at this point, not some extension of our supposed morality or anything like that.
Yes, athletes do hold an esteemed place in society (above teachers, firemen, soldiers, saw enforcement, doctors, sadly…)
I don’t care if professional athletes or multimillionaires pump themselves up with unknown substances, but it shows you have to cheat to win. We tell kids from infancy to near adulthood not to cheat, but with everything going on in sports in general (especially baseball), I’d venture to say a lot of people think that the risk is worth the reward.
Now, do I believe a lot of these guys when they issue their mea culpas? I’d like to say yes, but history has proven to us that there may be more to the story.
__________________
December 20th, 2007 at 12:10 am
I think your an idiot if you think Roger Clemens used any kind of steroids to continue his pitching career! His healthy work ethics are what brought him to his peak! If he was on steroids he would have used them these this last season when his pitching was lousy.. . And he should not have to give back any of his awards. It appears there is a lot of discrepancy with the Mitchell report.. Mitchell went to someone could very well have a grudge against Clemens. as it appears he formerly worked for Clemens.. Your words decry any admiration you may have had for Roger, other wise you wouldn’t have jumped to such an insulting conclusion.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:12 am
I’d like to say this much and not encite a full court press; As fans of the game I’d sooner this was over and MLB moving forward. Its a slippery slope to assume how truthful the statenments of a single person are or to assume that the motives of throwing around a name for the sake of attention aren’t at the very least possible. No man is perfect and as Yogi Berra said “All pitchers are liars or crybabies”. Would #36 agree? Doesn’t make it so but I’ll take Yogi’s word over a trainer’s any day. I guess my point is this. If Roger says he’s clean then why ask him to prove he’s innocent? I think he like others have paid there dues, have been a shining point for the game as a whole and without question has done little if anything to harm the game of baseball. I have had a love for this game since I can recall, still do. It is humbling to take in the rich history of the game and disturbing to find it in the middle of this sort of troublesome situation. Curt Schilling should be thankful as many other players at any level of performance or anyone anywhere should be that the word of one man isn’t threatening their career accomplishments or their reputation as a competitor. I’d hate to think of a scandal breaking from a groupie somewhere claiming to be the mother of a ML’s child or worse. Even if at some point in the future it was proven false the damage is done. Stories like that are page one. The details of an error weeks, months or years later are page 6. If Roger Clemons used steroids or any other league banned substance is proven then by all means lets take some sort of action. If he admits to it does it make forgive and forget an option? What action would you take? The game is bigger than calling out one man so lets focus on fixing the future of the game. When Gary Shefield says “….steroids are something you shoot in your …” I had to think of the many people I know in the gym that much to their credit I guess are ignorant of the fact that shooting ones self with a hypo is but just one ways of introducing that type of substance into your system. Did anyone tear into Shef and call him an ignorant hick that should have known better? I certainly wont’ as I doubt his statement is questionable. In my opinion it has a basis for truth. So he’s just interested in punishing baseball for a living and not being a pharmacist or not polishing his 7 Cy Youngs……..does it matter? Or are we only concerned with those most successful? Slippery slope indeed. Since I’m not in charge I hope this is seen as just my opinion. If I were in charge…..they’d have tested players long long ago. Lets attack the system and remember if you just need some help justifying any of the latest round of nonsense in the greatest game ever and want to put all your eggs in the basket of one man ……”Cheating is as much a part of the game as scorecards and hotdogs” – Billy Martin NY Yankees.
War MLB!
War a bloody sock.
War Red Sox / Yankees series forever.
War getting a MLB comish with a pair.
War Finding a C cure.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:12 am
Personally, aside from a virtual slap in the face of baseball lore and homage to the players who paved the way for you, the debate is a mute point as far as I am concerned.
The reality is, the envelope was pushed, at an earlier time when rules were not in place, testing was absent. Pitchers, catchers, batters all enhanced to varying degrees, I know, but faux natural nonetheless.
Barry and Roger et al. Why did we need to wait?
Why is it that no one aside from the SI portrayal this past Summer on Bonds wants to admit that there’s something wrong the picture that late 30-something men should not be getting better with age, their production should decline?
Look at pics of Clemens, Bonds, heck, McGwire even, in their early years. None of them the physical specimens that they grew to be. Moreover, why can’t we just punish and move on? I agree, if you attained the heights under an influence, then it all goes back to the next closest, natural pitcher/batter vying for it back in the day.
If you can’t take away their hardware, force them out of the game and let ‘em stew year in, year out without hall eligibility. I don’t know these men at all, nor do I want to, but what I do know is that it’s an utter disgrace that (a.) this stuff happens to the level in which it does, (b.) society is always hesitant to punish someone of notoriety.
Make an example of some, the rest will get in line. Until then, the dance will continue, others will rise and fall just the same.
jaco108
December 20th, 2007 at 12:12 am
Curt Schilling has once again proven that you don’t need to be an intellectual giant to be a great major league pitcher. Curt, in this country, you are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. Clemens doesn’t need to refute the charges; the man under federal indictment needs to prove his claims. Get a Clue Curt.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:13 am
thanks for sharing your viewpoint on this issue Kurt. Many times I agree with you…. sometimes I do not. But I always enjoy reading what you have to say. (Does that sound totally like a suck-up? It is not meant to be)
Peace and blessed Christmas to you and your loved ones.. Gerritt
December 20th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Trust. Can we trust anyone anymore? Congress? Athletes? Media Outlets?
Baseball used to be an interactive game. Small stadiums. Reasonable prices. Summer nights. It’s all gone. Greed has taken over. You can use the phrase, “Unless your in the clubhouse you don’t know whats going on” Well you admit you don’t even know whats going on. How as a fan can we trust an athlete when we’ve been told so many lies. “It’s not about the money.” I just hate how a “kids” game has been ruined by a bunch of greedy(obviously not everyone) adults.
I just want the game I love back.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:15 am
Curt,
Impressive blog! I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been following Roger since his college world series with calvin schiraldi in ‘83. What a draft pick. Saw him (you too about five years later) in New Britain. He certainly has the resources to assemble the best legal team there is to clear his name if he wants to. If not….oh well. Looking forward to another great season in Boston!
December 20th, 2007 at 12:15 am
I just reread your entire bs argument again and you still come off as a biased, “I said..” guy who thinks that saying “there’s a % of players using steroids” is enough to keep you above suspicion. How are you pitching into your 40’s better than you pitched in your 30’s? How? Jose is a liar and a cheat. Barry disrespected me by admiring a homer so I lost all respect for him. I hope these guys are innocent.
Hold a coherent thought. Either the Mitchell Report is gospel or it isn’t. They are either cheaters or they aren’t. You can’t forgive Pettite because he is a fellow Christian and that you believe him when he says he only did it twice. Santangelo, Roberts, Pettite, Bennett are all liars! Period! When asked in the past if they’d used they said NO. Now they just “used in once, felt bad, didn’t do it again,” or “I was trying to get back to the team so I asked the clubhouse guy who knew a clubhouse guy to get me some miracle cure that a DOCTOR wouldn’t prescribe” and it’s ok? They aren’t owning the mistake. They are trying to make people believe that their use of PEDs was minimal and an aberration during otherwise clean careers. But one guy says without equivocation he didn’t do it and still, how can he clear his name? The clubhouse moron and the trainer got immunity so they have to be telling the truth? Why? Mitchell didn’t have the power to arrest someone if they lied. Mitchell didn’t have subpoena power or your ass along with Clemens along with Sosa and McGwire would have been forced to testify and spill your guts about every single mention of steroids in a clubhouse. You never knew anyone doing steroids? You never saw it, heard about it? Well that is weird since it was in every clubhouse in the majors. Mitchell acknowledges that the problem was bigger than his report suggests. I’m not saying most of the names shouldn’t have been on there. But, and here’s where you need to take your dumbass steroid shrunken mind out of the sand: You can’t force someone to give you accurate info. You follow politics as a rabid rightwinger right? So you know the ins and outs of the whole torture thing right? That it doesn’t work, right? That info gained under threat isn’t accurate, right? Now I don’t know what Mitchell held over the clubhouse guy or Mcnamee but it wasn’t threat of jail time so what was it? And there is no way a guy who has been paid for years by Clemens and Pettite is rolling over on them without being forced to do so so how can I believe that everything McNamee said is 100%true and accurate. Maybe Pettite took injections yesterday but the report said he’d only done it twice in 2001 so hey “I only took it twice in 2001, I’m sorry, hadda heal, hadda cheat even though it was wrong to do so hadda do it. PS I’m a Christian and I give back to the community so take it easy on me huh.” The truth is we don’t know if Pettite used it more. We don’t know that he injected Clemens. Without proof, whether it be a witness or video or taped confession, Clemens’ name is tarnished forever because he can’t prove that he didn’t do something that baseball can’t prove but says he did.
Since you are so smart Curt answer me this: Three guys walking down the street. One guy wakes up in the hospital and says it “was that guy” when shown a mugshot book, “that is the guy that tried to kill me.” Well that is it then huh? The guy in the picture is guilty right? The guy in the hospital room is a retired Senator, he couldn’t possibly err, right? No trial. No proof. The Senator said the guy did it so the guy did it. But it does have to go to trial because this is the US, free and all that Curt, and guess what? The guy named has verifiable proof that he is in a Bank with a security camera at the time Senator X got beat down. How can this be? Not everything is cut and dried unless you are so naive and uncapable of creative thought as to believe everything you are told. Or should I just say outright that you don’t have the intelligence to speak of these matters so shut the hell up.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:16 am
lemme guess you censor your own blog so only favorable towards Curt comments appear.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:18 am
Mr. Schilling,
Thank you for articulating what many fans of this sport are thinking. The only question I have for you is this: If you were playing for the Mets, and you had first-hand knowledge that someone in the clubhouse was distributing PED to your teammates, would you remain silent, or would you break the code of silence and expose the problem? Furthermore, you are spot on with your assertions as to why no one has sued Canseco or anyone else affiliated with the Mitchell report to restore their reputation. The last thing they want is to answer questions under oath.
SC
December 20th, 2007 at 12:18 am
Shouldn’t people wait for proof before condemning Roger Clemens? Is there ANYTHING that corroborates Brian McNamee’s testimony?
Andy Pettite
December 20th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Mr. Schilling,
I have no problem with your opinion. My concern is that you mention “accused” and then demand awards should be stripped. I would hope you would want a little higher standard than a couple people’s word that something happened.
You are in the area where the witch trials were very popular at the time. Was that not a parallel situation – I accuse you of being a witch and that ends the discussion. Now the burden is on YOU to prove you are not a witch. How do you do that exactly? How can Clemens prove he did not take anything? The standards and burdens are all switched around, and you, as a player, have no problem with that. I saw you use cocaine on a regular basis. Prove otherwise. You sell cocaine. Prove otherwise. Good luck. Do you have multiple witnesses of every minute of every day? How do you prove a negative again?
It seems spooky and I am unsure why you are in such a hurry to bury these guys. Just wait, you can strip all the awards in a year from now.
Only best wishes,
A fan of the game
December 20th, 2007 at 12:20 am
Mr. Schilling,
The Mitch report has put baseball on its head. I really can’t make heads or tails of all of this. Do I believe that there is use of PEDs in sports today? Yes I do. but who is using and who is not ,well that remains to be proven. As stated by many sources there is no absolute test out there. So with that being said how does anyone really know. Roger Clemens has been a baseball hero to me for many years and I just can not convince myself that he used PEDs. You too are a baseball hero and I can’t fatham why you called clemens out. If he is such a driving force to you then why jump on the train to derail him. If clemens did not use the PEDs and it is proven what will your stance be then and will you stand up for him and apologize for calling him out? On the same note if he did and there is proof then yes I do agree with what you have said and he should relinquish the awards he has received.
In closing as my screen name says the greatest rivalry which you are part of and I hope it continues. This rivalry is what the true meaning of this game is all about. I hope that baseball can get past this dark spot and become again the greatest sport known to man.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:26 am
Thank you for saying your piece. I think if more people in baseball said something, the cheaters will be held more accountable. They are taking money out of hard working ethical peoples pockets. Roger should be held in exactly the same regard as Bonds if this is true. No hall of fame, astericks, etc. Maybe a monument with a needle sticking out at Yankee Stadium (ya he was good, but he had help). Cmon, everyone remembers the ridiculous roid rage bat toss at Piazza in the 2000 world series. And people dont peak and decline and then spike again and pitch til they’re 45. Seriously. He’s not Satchel Paige. Nobody is.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:29 am
I couldnt agree more with this post. If Roger is innocent he should do something about it, not issue a denial via a third party.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:30 am
You say take away Roger’s awards…..Well I really think it’s up to Mlb to decide whether or not he did it or not…. Personally, I think he didn’t do it and if he says that he didn’t then that is what it is. Besides, even if he did, it wasn’t illegal at the time anyways so they wouldn’t be able to do it. If that happens, they are going to strip everyone else of their records and go way back to see who was using it back then. Hey who knows, we are not even sure that you have done it or not!
Personally, I think that you are just mad that you don’t have Clemens awards, cy youngs, or anything. He is the best ever period!!!! Just face the facts that you are that good
December 20th, 2007 at 12:31 am
I would never say that you are not allowed to voice your opinion however I have a problem with saying Clemens is solely responsible to refute the allegations. Isn’t it incumbent upon those who made the accusations to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he used steroids? Unless those behind the Mitchell report have a preponderance of proof against not only Clemens but all those named we are required to give these players the benefit of a doubt until such time it is proven they did steroids or HGH.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Thank you for the comments and words regarding HGH and PED’s. As a former minor league player I was tempted to use these methods to get bigger, faster, and stronger. I never did, but walked away from the game knowing I maximized the ability that God gave me. Looking back I am thankful to have my health and the family that I have now. Who knows, if that book Moneyball would have been out when I played my stock may have risen. Congratulations on the World Series and it was exciting to see J.D. Drew win a championship. I hope you two get along as brothers in the Lord. Thanks again.
All my best
Dennis
December 20th, 2007 at 12:35 am
What is your agenda? You have recovered from some very serious injuries and have posted career numbers at an age similar to those you bash with your self-righteous #@$!. I wonder how you accomplished all you accomplished? I wonder if you have just found a better way to beat the HGH system. You have a better distribution source, a reliable system and an even more reliable masking agent – right?
By the way – was it Heinz or Hunt’s on that “bloody sock?” Hopefully that is the only part of you that ever sees Cooperstown.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:37 am
oh yeah, you are absolutely classless for mentioning ARod with absolutely no proof. you weren’t popular as a kid were you? what with starting all the rumors about Sally and tattle-taling on little Timmy. How come you didn’t tattle on your team members who were juicing? Afraid to get beat up or were juicing right along with them?
I have no respect for you. I had to search you out to tell you that a Red Sox player sanctioning the Red Sox Report on Steroids is as believable as a murderer saying I’m sorry as he pulls the trigger.
I’ll never post on this site again because I think you went from quality number 2 pitcher to a quality number 4 pitcher hanging on to his career via pharmaceuticals. The difference is when you were younger you were actually smarter and knew when to keep your mouth shut. Now you need someone the size of Shaq with a shoehorn the size of Mass. to pull your foot out of your mouth on an hourly basis.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:42 am
wow, excellent post.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:45 am
These player’s who’s name came up in the Mitchell report are unable to prove that they didn’t take steroids are elected into the Hall of fame, then before they even think about that, they need to make sure that Pete Rose gets in there before any of them.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:46 am
Curt,
I think it takes balls to make the stand you have on this issue. I could not agree more about taking the awards and records away from cheaters. As a Yankee fan, sorry, I was disappointed that several ex-Yankees and one current one were named. However I do not think there was any bias against them by Senator Mitchell, nor have I heard anyone say there was on any of the sports talk stations in the New York area. This issue is bigger than regional rivalries, no matter how intense they are. By the way..most true Yankee fans still consider Clemens to be a Red Sock at heart.
Thanks for taking on this topic..I’m sure you’ll get some grief somewhere for it, but your voice is a necessary one in this dark time.
Sincerely,
Brad
December 20th, 2007 at 12:48 am
Curt, I love your blog. I respect you even more that you speak your mind and are not worried what others think. I love the game of baseball and am a purist at heart. I truley believe as you do that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens neither one belong now in the Hall of Fame. That is a sacred place for true heroes and legends of the game and should not be tainted by these CHEATERS! Keep up the great writing and long live the last of the great baseball heroes Stan Musial.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:48 am
I agree with you 100% Curt. Barry and Roger shoul admit it, and be done with it, instead of paying the consequences later like Barry is now. I was never a big Roger fan when he was in Toronto and NY but i respected him. I’ve now lost all respect for him, and I hope he does come out and admit it to clear his name. As for the CY Young awards, he also should lose those as well.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:49 am
I believe Clemens when he says he did not take them and agree with his comment that his 25 years in the public eye afford him some credibility on this issue. He has never failed a drug test that I am aware of and is as famous for his off season training regime as Canseco was for not having one. It seems very out of character for Clemens to take steroids.
Regarding legal action, MLB.com has an article in which a legal expert says that players mentioned in the report have very few legal avenues to protest their innocence. Clemens may well be advised that it is pointless to pursue a legal response, other than for show, and the best he can do is maintain his innocence.
From memory the report says he had McNamee inject him with stuff he obtained from somebody else. McNamee and Radomski have no evidence of his obtaining it, unlike many others where they produced checks, money orders or courier slips. Why would Clemens buy from one person and have another inject him when that doubles the risk of being caught out as it would mean two people are involved? It makes no sense. My guess is McNamee felt compelled to give a big name in his testimony and gave the biggest one he knew.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:51 am
Regarding the comments on personal bias, I would like to say I understand where that idea comes from, but I would like to think human beings deserve more credit. I’ve been a Yankee fan for over ten years, since I started following the game as an elementary school student. My love of The Yankees is, always has been, and always will be secondary to my love of the game of baseball. When I think of baseball, I don’t think of The Yankees, I don’t even think of MLB. I think of a diamond, outdoors, in nice weather, as well as the sounds and the sights of the game being played. MLB gives me a stage to indulge in my passion, it’s very accessible, and I am grateful for it. I have come to love and support The Yankees, as well as many other players all over both leagues who embody what I love about the game. That said, I completely agree that Bonds and Clemens are in the same boat. I’ve been a fan of Clemens (and Pettite) for years. I was certainly more disappointed to hear the accusations against Clemens than those against Bonds, but I would never suggest that anyone deserves different treatment from other possible cheaters. As you said, and I think this is the most important point to drive home, we need to judge a person not based on the mistakes they made, but how they dealt with the mistakes, how they reflected on them, and the players’ honesty and integrity. Clemens and Bonds are in the same boat. Punishments should be based on evidence, not bias. If Clemens cheated and Bonds did not, Clemens should be punished, and we should celebrate Bonds’ accomplishments. I grew up a fan of Clemens, but I am not biased towards him in a way that makes me desire different treatment for him. My bias results in a more personal sense of disappointment. A real baseball fan is ecstatic over a great play, but still exited by a routine one. We want to preserve the integrity of the game first, and celebrate our teams second. Under no circumstances would I (I hope many other baseball fans agree) suggest that a player on my favorite team be treated any differently from anyone else.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:54 am
Curt I respect you as a player and totally agree you have an opinion and your intitled to it. But Im getting pretty sick and tired of you ranting out loud. Im not going to defend Clemens but if you were on the Mitchell report and you were innocent, would you want some clown baseball player saying take away his awards and cy youngs and records. Im just tired of all this stuff coming out and then in the headings is curt schilling blabbing about crap. Im sorry Curt but you need to shut up and keep it to your blog or whatnot. Or you need to go do steroids(if you havent done them at one point in your career, remember no one is safe, not even you, anyones name can be brought up and be speculated about) so that way you are in the news. You just love being in the news. Well stop it, no one wants to hear what Curt has to say about anything, and if we do, we will come to your blog. But seriously just stop talking because all you really want to do is be in the news and have your name out there. Your just jealous your not in the news. Get real and get a life.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:55 am
Thanks Curt,
I agree. If any player felt that he were unfairly accused, naturally he would step up and do whatever is in his power to deny and/or refute the information. Until then, in the court of public opinion….guilty.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:56 am
Great post Curt. Here’s 2 things that really piss me off about this issue that no one seems to be discussing…
First of all, I’ve been a HUGE baseball fan for the last 19 years, which is most of my life. I live in Mississippi, but grew up in Houston watching the Astros.
My wife (possibly a bigger fan than me) and I are only able to attend 6 or 7 Astros games a season, but we’re subscribers to “extra innings” and we also attend some of our local minor league games.
I’m getting to my first point…
We pour our heart and soul into the game – every season – every year (and even in the off-season).
We spend a lot of money on MLB products, collectibles, etc. Our friends and family know us as die-hard Astros fans and our neighbors catch hell every night during the season because we tend to get a little loud.
We’re huge baseball fans and I say all that to say this…
I’m so sick and tired of people talking about the steroids in baseball, how the game is tainted, how crooked the sport is, blabiddy, blabiddy, blabiddy..
I look at it the same way I look at our Government… If you didn’t vote – don’t bitch.
If you don’t support the game and you don’t have baseball in your best interest – your opinion on the matter doesn’t count and shouldn’t be heard.
It’s not another Brittney Spears-ish bandwagon story that folks can jump on just because they saw it on the nightly news. It’s an issue that concerns us; the fans, the players, and the supporters of baseball.
— Point 2 —
As I mentioned, I’m a big fan of baseball. I grew up watching Clemens, Bonds, the Bash Brothers, Ozzie, Sandberg, Biggio, You, and others.
I was too late for Hank, Willie, Ernie, Ted, Gehrig, and the Babe. That isn’t an era of baseball that I’ll be able to tell my grandchildren about.
But when Bonds hit #756 – I was grilling cheeseburgers. I’ll be able to tell my grandchildren about that historical moment.
When Pujols hit the 412 ft homer off of Lidge in game 5 of the NLCS – my wife and I were on our feet rooting for a Stros win.
It’s unfortunate that my era of baseball has such a despicable scandal with PED’s, but the fact is that it’s my era – and millions of others.
My point is that Major League Baseball CAN NOT deny us the memories that we have by banning these players from the hall of fame and erasing their statistics from the record book.
I’m fine with asterisks or some sort of note. But to completely disregard everything they accomplished (PED’s or not) while I supported the game, studied the stats page in the sports section during school, ran home from school to catch the last few innings of the Cubs’ day game, and spent a small fortune on baseball cards (just to have them stolen later) – is even more despicable and would forever leave a void in baseball history and for the rest of us.
Thanks Curt,
– Gaston
December 20th, 2007 at 12:57 am
The Mitchell report is just that, a report. Clemens nor any of the other players in it have been convicted in a court of law. Clemens is correct not to respond to the report because it is essentially slander. This is a modern day witch hunt, and it is unfortunate to see.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Growing up as a college player and fan in this generation, I think it’s safe to say these players (Bonds and Clemens) are still unbelievable players and the best players of their generation. Sure, they took steroids. So what? So did most of the league. This simply states the fact that among juiced ballplayers in that generation, they were simply the best.
What about their numbers? Are they tainted? No, you cannot and should not compare numbers across generations when fences are brought in, pitchers throw harder, athletes train year round, and technologies advance. Who’s to say the arm surgeries pitchers get these days are fair? How many players from previous generations would have had different numbers if they were afforded the opportunity to have arm surgery, or ahem, steroids.
Whose job is it to decide what performance enhancing drugs are too much and what are not? Creatine and glutamine are legal and HGH is not. I sure know a lot of guys who got stronger than they ever would have just taking creatine for stength and glutamine for recovery. Heck, most of corporate America couldn’t survive without a drug called caffeine. What is the difference between that and greenies?
In a society that idolizes hard work, I think it’s a shame we can look back fondly on athletes like Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth who no doubt drank away some of their potential greatness and loathe athletes that gave all they had to the game and were willing to go the extra mile for any advantage.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:00 am
Dear Mr. Schilling,
I just finished reading your post.
I saw your warning “If you plan on writing some idiotic off the cuff rant slanted one way or another feel free to close the page now, it will be deleted.”
I do not plan on ranting. I would however, like the opportunity to engage in an intelligent conversation with you regarding the most serious issue that professional baseball has encountered since the “Black Sox Scandal”.
For the sake of disclosure, I will admit that I am a Yankee fan. That should not be held against me, since it is my passion for baseball that inspires me to comment.
First of all, I feel that Senator Mitchell would not want his legacy falsely tied to a report that he went out of his way to implicate more Yankees than Red Sox. His public service record should be enough to avoid his integrity being questioned.
Jose Canseco, obviously not one of your favorite people. I can’t argue with you on that one, but at the end of all this he may be viewed as the most important figure in baseball since Jackie Robinson (anyone who reads this PLEASE do not view that statement as a sign of disrespect. Jackie Robinson IS the most important figure in baseball history) Even if Jose is erased from the record books, his impact will be felt for years to come. *** I guess steroids couldn’t help Jose against you, he was 0 for 3***
I understand your stance on taking away Barry Bonds & Roger Clemens awards. I would like to point out one glaring difference between these two players. Bonds (allegedly) admitted to unknowingly using “The Cream” and “The Clear”, if this is true then we know that he was using PED’s. With Clemens, the only thing out there is an accusation from a trainer. No admission from Clemens saying he was unaware what was given to him. How can he (or others in the report) clear his name? With a lawsuit? Without a positive test or an admission there is no way to prove he is guilty and if he does take legal action the views of the public probably will not change. Remember, O.J. Simpson was found not guilty, but most people believe he is guilty.
Earlier I made mention of the “Black Sox”, If Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis was commissioner today, in addition to the “Chicago Eight” we would also have the “Mitchell Eighty Four” or if you were the commissioner we would have “Schilling Two”. Do you suggest every player that made the Mitchell report have their awards taken away? Bonds and Clemens are not the only award winners named in the report.
Steroids and baseball has been a water cooler topic where I work, when commissioner Selig made it known that he was commissioning this report my reaction was that there are no names that would surprise me if they were revealed and now that the report is out I’m not surprised at any of the names (not even the Yankees). I am more surprised at some of the names that weren’t on the report. Obviously I have no way of knowing this but I have a feeling that there were a lot of players that breathed a sigh of relief that their name did not appear on the report just as I believe that there are a few players that were genuinely angered that they were falsely accused and did not issue denials that were just for posturing. I feel that this report is just the tip of the iceberg.
Of all the confessions, I feel Chad Allen’s was the best “I think a lot of people were surprised to see my name… I made a mistake. I know I am going to pay for it. I did something wrong five years ago out of stupidity. If somebody holds that against me, it is their decision. But I certainly wasn’t going to lie.”
Addressing your closing statement. You are not alone in wishing that the innocent can clear their names, the problem is how? Has the damage already been done?
If you actually get to read this. Thank You
December 20th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Well said, Curt.
Opinions? Hmm…Does it even matter?
Feelings? My heart’s been broken from baseball several times. As an ex-Philadelphian, it was broken in 1993 watching you come soooo close to a World Series ring (which you eventually earned multiple times over). Now, it’s been broken again as I see that Lenny Dykstra’s on the list. I feel like someone’s pulled back the curtain and shown me The Wizard who was creating the illusion the whole time.
Please keep blogging about this subject, but offer the reassurance I need to remain a fan. Will the list of players continue to grow, or can we take comfort in the fact that this is the peak of this horrible scandal?
December 20th, 2007 at 1:03 am
Mr. Schilling,
As a fan of the game of baseball, of logic, and a man of integrity, I must applaud your statements. While I may not agree with every single one of your arguments, the fact that you are a public figure who does not shy away from an issue that could destroy lives, let alone the National Pasttime, makes me hopeful for the future.
I think that some baseball players see themselves as more than men, or at least more than the men who do not have God given athletic talents. For these ball players, to admit the necessity of performance enhancing drugs would show both them and the people around them that they are not that much better than the guy selling hot dogs in the stands.
The thing about this is, and I know I’m not in the minority, is that to admit that you made a mistake, makes your accomplishments since the screw-up valid. As far as I’m concerned, until a player follows your advice they are not only guilty of infractions in the past but also guilty of infractions currently. If you aren’t denying the allegations with every means necessary AND you aren’t admitting, you must still be using.
Thank you again for your poignant and pointed article dealing with this difficult issue. I only hope, for the sake of baseball, integrity and the individuals, that those named would follow your advice as soon as possible.
Nate
Wocribe on Malfurion
December 20th, 2007 at 1:04 am
Amen brother, just Amen….sure is nice to hear someone in MLB who’s NOT trying to preach to the choir or let the their silence deafen our ears!
Standing up, to admit one has done wrong takes courage, more courage than throwing a 3-2 fastball down the pike, just knowing it might come back at you faster than you threw it! You, Mr. Curt Schilling have never been shy in the way that you play the game, both; baseball and life! Kudos!
As a professional driver who is subjected to random, and I do mean random drug testing, for it matters not how many times you test negative, it is done in the spirit of protection and safety. I’ve accepted it as a requirement to keep my employ and think for the safety and integrity of the game and for those would-be major leaguers to come, MLB should do the same.
This Phillies fan has rued the day that they let Curt Schilling go, but have followed your career and have enjoyed watching you develop as a pitcher, and more importantly, as a human being.
Merry Christmas Curt
December 20th, 2007 at 1:09 am
Well said Curt, I would like to think of myself as a baseball fan, and not of a particular player or team, obviously I still have my favorites, and some were named in the report, although I did not read it entirely, everything I did read troubled me, and a few names were quite surprising to me. I do not believe that Sen. Mitchell was in any way biased, and found what I read to be very factual. My opinion of Roger Clemens is not entirely formed yet, however I have lost quite a bit of respect for his accomplishments.
I agree that anyone using PEDs were cheating and should be held accountable, however how far should it go in your opinion? I have mixed feelings about it, as part of me thinks, anyone ever proven to use PEDs, should lose any awards or records that they did not fairly earn. The other part of me feels that since steroids were not banned from baseball until I believe the 2002 season, that it may be too difficult to strip awards earned through what was not technically cheating at the time, even though it was still morally cheating.
I will not go on and on, with my opinions, as I am sure that you have plenty to read through as it is, and you are right, my opinions may not be totally in line with yours, but I really would like to know more of your opinion on what you would do if your were commissioner Selig, and were put into this very difficult situation.
I do want to thank you for writing this blog, I have admired you and your accomplishments, you are what is right with Baseball, a truly good sport, and great competitor. I have always admired your bluntness when you speak on the issues, and your determination when you are out on the field.
God Bless You, and Thank You!
(by the way I am a Tiger’s Fan from birth, and I hope Shef makes a statement soon, and apologizes, takes responsibility, and moves on)
December 20th, 2007 at 1:11 am
FP Santagelo has also been at least as stand-up as Pettite, Roberts, et al. FP admitted his mistakes on air (MLB radio on XM) and stayed on the air to field questions from callers despite the potential for the callers to lash out.
Sincere thanks to you, Mr. Schilling, for being open and honest, both in word and action.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:11 am
Anyone that thinks the Mitchell report is biased because of his affiliation with the Red Sox is out of their mind. The 2 rats that gave all the names had worked for the NY teams so of course there will be more NY players implicated. As far as stripping players of MVP’s or CY Young awards I think that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Everyone in the baseball community (I spent 6 years in the minor leagues) knows that there were a hell of a lot more players using PED’s that weren’t mentioned in the Report. More names will come out and some will never be caught. Every team had players using, and in my opinion, there was a large number on each team using. There was not any testing that could directly state that at a given time you were on PED’s. If Clemens used, how do you know that was the reason he won the CY Young? How do you know the guy that finished second in the voting wasn’t on the juice too? You don’t! Many players who used will never be caught, and there will never be hard evidence that can stick. Let’s just say that PED use was so widespread that it leveled out the playing field. I guess it sucks for the people that were clean and didn’t have that advantage but I think that it is safe to say there was probably more people on it then there was guys not on it.
Another thing: Who is to say that there wasn’t any Performance Enhancers used by players in past generations? Drug use has been around forever. Nobody knows what players were taking 30, 40 years ago. I am not 100% sure, but didn’t Tom House admit to experimenting with PED’s? He played in the 70’s. Do you think if he did, he is the only one?
What about Greenies? They are on the banned substance list now, and weren’t for a long time. There are a lot of guys who had long big league careers who couldn’t function without popping a few greenies. There were coaches popping greenies to get through those long days. How is that any different? If a greenie gives you some kind of a boost and it allows you to perform at a higher intensity for the game, that is an enhancer as well. If you agree that enhances performance, I would go out on a limb and say at some point in their career, 90% of players popped a greenie. Maybe they were out drinking all night and need a pick-me-up. Maybe it was a long night of travel. Even though it doesn’t change your body composition like steroids does, it still gives you a mental edge for that particular game so that you can compete at a slightly higher level.
Now I will take it a step further. What about a cortisone shot? If you are hurting, you get a cortisone shot, then a few days later you are able to play. The shot lasts anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks. Isn’t that enhancing performance? Even though it is prescribed medically and administered by a doctor, where is the difference in terms of enhancing performance? If the player doesn’t take that shot, there is no chance that they can endure the pain and play with their injury. Some players just deal with their pain and play. Others can’t and rely on cortisone. Were players getting those shots in the 20’s and 30’s? I doubt it!
The bottom line is our generation is different from the previous generations. Cheating is, and always has been a major part of sports and things will never change. Many things that are not considered cheating because of medical advancements (such as cortisone shots) were not available to players in other generations. We need to just move on and enjoy the game as it is, and try to keep it clean going foward (and that will never completely be with all the new drugs that are being designed to replace the ones they can test for). You can point to many things and call them “performance enhancing” especially judging our period of time to other periods of time where these things weren’t available. Teams are not getting stripped of their titles because they had “juicers” on their team. Players are not having to give back the millions of dollars they made because they stuck themselves with a needle. Nobody will ever know every name of every player to ever cheat and with as widespread as it was, you would have to think the playing field still ended up being somewhat level.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:12 am
I am amazed that any sports fan would dismiss the steroid era as irrelevant, or claim that since we can’t be sure of the identity of everyone who juiced, we must give even those who are caught a free pass.
What a ridiculous idea. Imagine applying that standard to speed limits. Since we can’t know of all the people who speed, let’s get rid of the rule so that everyone is treated fairly.
There is something stunningly perverse about an athlete as gifted as the Rocket breaking the rules to get ahead. I would put that on about the same level as Helen of Troy getting collagen injections, Einstein cheating on his math exam, or Paul McCartney pretending to have written Stairway to Heaven.
Thank you for writing your piece. The only thing thing that will be left over in this life is honesty and kindness, everything else being laid on the pyre of vanity.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:13 am
Thank you for sharing with us your unique view. I greatly respect your willingness to call out personal friends as well as…the others.
Your opinion is well respected by this fan. I admire your willingness to take a stance and make the suggeston that Bonds and Clemens give up their ill-earned honors. 100% in agreement!
As a fan, it disgusts me that steroids and phd’s have infected the game like a wicked virus looking to claim another host. The game did not deserve this.
The young upcoming players not willing to cheat that were delayed in making their debut or perhaps never made it to the majors as a result of a user’s artificial career or unearned prolonged career didn’t deserve this.
I hope MLB finds a cure for this disease swiftly. If it is as widespread as we now must assume it is, what can be done? What should the punishment be if caught?
This fan believes MLB should introduce (for all future cheaters testing positive or getting caught) nothing short of total termination of career. Otherwise, the money and low risk may outweigh the “possibility” of being caught and even then only face a suspension for a short time.
As for Clemens, I think he must have the biggest ego ever. He certainly didn’t need to hang around for a few more years for financial reasons. He is a jerk a liar and a cheater.
What’s wrong with playing the great game, making a lot of money, and moving on? I just don’t get it.
Again, thank you for taking a stance and making a difference!
Chad
December 20th, 2007 at 1:13 am
curt i just read wut u had to say about roger clemens on espn.com and i think you need to keep your mouth shut on alot of issues in baseball and let them sort themselves out instead of opening your big mouth.
signed the biggest schilling and redsox hater.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:16 am
I agree whole heartedly with this. And as a fan, I can only hope they clear their names completely or admit and allow the sport to start over. There is a new breed of players here now, with Utley, Rollins, Holliday and Wright leading it. With this kind of talent in the league now, maybe this steroid era will pass a bit quicker from the sport…. Hopefully.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:19 am
Marion Jones was stripped of her medals for cheating through the use of steroids.
The team mates of Marion Jones who won Olympic medals for the 4×100m and 4×400m relays have also been stripped of their medals. When one member of a team is cheating, particularly one of the most critical members, it sadly but rightfully disqualifies the whole team.
I support Curt Schilling’s call for Clemens to surrender the Cy Young awards won while he was cheating by use of performance enhancing steroids. I propose that the New York Yankees also give up the titles and trophies for their American League Championships (1999, 2000, 2001 and 2003) and World Series Championships (1999 and 2000).
Since is is about as likely for the Steinbrenner clan to willingly surrender their trophies as it is for Donald Trump to donate a kidney to Rosie O’Donnell, I call upon Commissioner Selig to follow the strong example of the IOC and strip the New York Yankees of these titles which were obtained as a result of KEY players who cheated by using performance enhancing steroids.
I would not go so far as to say that the slightest taint should disqualify a team’s whole season. However, Clemens was a critical team leader in those championships and his willful cheating and chemically enhanced performance had a pivotal role in their outcome. It is the sad but fair fate that the Yankees teams lead to victory by Roger Clemens should be stripped of their ALCS and World Series trophies, World Series rings, and be required to repay the remuneration received as a result of these championships.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:24 am
Curt, I had read your opinion and as a Philly’s Phan, I always appreciated your honesty. You say it like you mean it! That’s Great!
As for the Rocket, it’s a huge shock as a baseball fan to hear some of the names listed on the Mitchell Report. Rocket being one of them. I remember when he was pitching for the Yankees against the Mets in the World Series. Mike Piazza was up to bat and Mike had hit the Rocket’s tailing fatsball back to the mound and the bat broke in half, the barrell going out to the mound as well. I remember the Rocket picking the barrell up and heaving it back at Piazza. In hindsight, could that of been some “Roid Rage”? Because it sure seemed like that to me.
A True Philly’s Phan
December 20th, 2007 at 1:26 am
I thought this was a very thoughful and insightful blog on this issue and I couldn’t agree with you more. If someone slandered me I would do everything in my power to get it corrected and if that meant legal action against anyone then so be it. While I don’t condone what Andy did I have gained so much more respect for the man for coming out and admitting his wrong doing. As you said several times we have all done things in our past that we are not proud and but by the grace of God am I here today. As a fan of baseball I can only hope that this roid era quickly becomes something of the past so thatthe game and people associated with it can move on and help the game become even greater than it is. Curt I know that you have rubbed some people the wrong way but I certainly hope that one day you find yourself in Cooperstown because in my mind you deserve it.
Thanks
December 20th, 2007 at 1:39 am
Curt,
Nice post.
I just have a couple comments/questions.
I believe the Mitchell report is accurate about its findings, and with new evidence of more and more players being linked to PED’s in the past, there must be a lot more players who have also ‘dabbled’ and have not been uncovered yet. Because of this, do you think that the players uncovered should lose their awards (Clemens’ cy) while it is highly possible that the runner up also dabbled but we haven’t found out yet? When does this award stripping cease?
In my unbiased opinion, I feel that PED’s are simply a sign of the times. They were uncontrolled for a while because not too much was known about them, but now that everything is said and done I don’t think players who have been found to do PED’s in the past should be condemned. These players were obviously playing against others doing the same drugs, and the ones who prevailed and came out on top definitely says something about their abilities and they should not be looked down upon because they were the ones caught.
I feel that the game of baseball is the most well-rounded game in the world, and no matter what drug any player takes, their pure ability and hard work is what is going to get them to the top.
-jb
December 20th, 2007 at 1:39 am
What exactly makes your opinion on this subject relevant Curt? As long as your own body is clear of such substances, isn’t that all that should really matter to you?
Good thing there’s no reliable test for having ingested too many jelly donuts huh?
38donuts.com might work better for you.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:48 am
Hey Curt, here’s some information that might help you understand why no legal action has been taken in response to allegations that players have used illegal performance enhancing substances (even though some of those allegations may have been false).
In 1964, the United States Supreme Court decided a case called New York Times Co. v. Sullivan. In that case, the Court set a very high standard for people who want to sue for defamation when the plaintiff is a public figure.
As a result of that case, a public figure (such as a Major League Baseball player) cannot win a lawsuit simply by proving that someone said or printed something about him that was untrue and damaging to his reputation. In addition, he must prove that they KNEW they were spreading a derogatory falsehood about the public figure.
It is very easy to defend against a defamation lawsuit brought by a public figure. Let’s pretend that a reporter writes a story accusing an MLB player of juicing. If that reporter heard a rumor from someone, and simply reported what he heard, then he’s safe. The MLB player would not have a lawsuit against him. The same goes for a fitness trainer who speaks publicly about rumors he has overheard during the course of his work with a team.
And let’s assume Roger Clemens wants to accuse his personal trainer of lying about injecting steroids into Roger’s ass. It will be Roger’s word against his trainer’s word, and for Roger to be successful in a lawsuit against his trainer, he would have to PROVE that his trainer was lying. His trainer can sit back and relax while Roger assembles his “legal team” and tries to come up with the proof. Roger might win if he can find a recording of his personal trainer bragging about how he’s about to frame Roger Clemens. But realistically, that isn’t going to happen.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful. You MLB players open yourselves up to criticism when you step into the spotlight and earn tens of millions of dollars and become famous. The public has a Constitutional First Amendment right to speak freely. In order to protect that right — so that we don’t become like other countries where people are too afraid to talk about controversial issues — the law has been shaped to make it difficult for public figures to sue others for defamation. It’s a balance. Sometimes liars will get away with defaming a famous person. But the rest of us will live comfortably knowing that the Curt Schillings and Roger Clemens of the world aren’t going to sue our pants off just for speaking our minds.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:49 am
Curt,
This was a worthwhile post, and a great read. In response to “My question is, if you did nothing wrong, and know of no crime being committed, why would you have to go to jail? What information would you possess that would land you in jail for failure to disclose? If you are innocent, and no one is hiding anything, why is anyone going to jail?”, I must say that I agree with you 100%. To me, if Bonds’ trainer accepts to go to jail, something is amiss here. That in and of itself screams GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY.
I’m going to come back to this entry and probably post a reaction on my blog about your thoughts/beliefs.
Take care, and keep writing.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:52 am
Just a note to all the amateur lawyers defending Clemens with an “innocent till proven guilty” argument (including Bill O’Reilly): Yes, that’s the standard for a COURTROOM. But this is not a criminal case, Clemens is not being prosecuted, his freedom or life is not at issue, and so your defense of him is misguided from this angle.
It would be better to see this like a civil case — the standard being a Preponderance of Evidence. If it seems more likely than not Clemens is guilty, then we end up seeing him that way.
So far, the evidence added up would seem to point to his guilt in using steroids: A stunning late-career resurgence after fading for a few years; Anger issues; a seeming bulked-up look; his accuser being confirmed by another purported user; and a weird failure to immediately and forcefully dispute the charges.
This is not a courtroom, it is the type of character and judgment decisions we make everyday when we try to figure out how to make up our minds without 100% of the evidence at our disposal.
Clemens could bring this whole fiasco to a halt if he offered to talk to the Feds, if he sued Mitchell or NcNamee, offered himself for testing, or other obvious rejoinders. As it is, has he even personally denied any charges? If you need to employ a lawyer to tell your simple “truth” 5 days later, that is a terrible sign.
From my perspective, Clemens is as guilty as a fox in a henhouse with feathers on his lips, but then again that’s just my take. If Clemens would like to salvage his reputation, now is the time to go talk to Mitchell & Co. in a courtroom. Call their bluff.
But I think we all know that will never happen, and why, as well.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:55 am
Hey, Curt…Stop playing “God”…WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE? Be smart and stay out of it…let the experts deal with it…too bad you had to open your big mouth and offer such remarks about “The Rocket”…wether true or not, WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK? Keep it to yourself, SHUT UP AND HAVE A WONDERFUL HOLIDAY SEASON…the fact that you were never and will never be a NY YANKEE doesn’t give you the righ to attack Roger!
Grow up and Shut up, Curt!
December 20th, 2007 at 1:56 am
The entire world knows that the full scope of who all was, and was not guilty of taking HGH and steroids will never be known. So why run your piehole about Roger Clemens. The Hall of Fame should put a large plaque in a special wing of the Hall of Fame and simply state, “this wing is dedicated to the players who played during the steroids era”. Simple as that. Then we, as fans, can decide what we wish to believe. How can you prove to me you have never taken steroids or HGH, simple, you can’t. I’ve told my son for years that Roger Clemens had to be on steroids simply due to his size. He’s a monster. And to play at such an older age….amazing. But, until we have a smoking gun, your opinion is only that, your opinion.
Hardly seems fair to single out individuals simply because they set all-time records.
Furthermore, you could be taking HGH today and no one would know it because there is no test for it. So enough of the HGH.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:57 am
Curt – great post.
I understand, for the obvious reasons, why ESPN replays (over & over) Canseco’s words on ARod. It seems, however, the network is as culpable at Canseco giving such publicity without substance. I believe ARod would have been fair game if mentioned in the Mitchell report. Otherwise, I would suggest ESPN & ABC not propogate a rumor based on scant evidence. I’m sure there are numerous professionals like yourself who continue to play the game the right way. It seems like every player is now in some type of Salem-trial where everybody is looking for a star player to burn. On the other hand, maybe this intense, albeit unfair, scrutiny is needed to preserve the game. As a fan, I appreciate your efforts and stand against cheaters. For others who cannot or will not, well……. JFK paraphrased Dante in his book Profiles of Courage by saying, “the hottest fires in hell burn for those who in times of a great moral crisis do nothing.” Bottom line: everybody (players, fans, owners, media, etc) should take a stand, demand the truth, and punish only those found responsible with reliable evidence.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:59 am
As a lifelong Yankee fan, and Red Sox hater…I must admit that I was impressed with the honest assessment by Curt Schilling of the whole roid mess. I still want the Yankees to totally beat your brains out…but, now I have respect of you as a human being…I TOTALLY expected all the players to “circle the wagons” so to speak…and get the usual non-answers that one comes to expect from athletes when questions are posed that are the least bit controversial…
The Schilling Voodoo doll has been put away….I still have Manny, Ortiz, VTek, and friends…
December 20th, 2007 at 2:04 am
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty. There is no proof other than what one man said. If this is what it all comes down to, then the next idiot may I gave Curt Schilling steriods. Now, would that make you guilty?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:05 am
Dear Mr. Schilling,
As a player and fan of baseball my entire life, I feel over the years there have been many issues that have come to light which has given a negitive view in all sports. But in baseball, which is known as America’s Pastime, there have been a few issues that has given such a black eye to our pastime that questions of “will baseball survive” well it has and it will again survive. In your blog there are a number of statements I do agree with, especially any player that has made the list, and has used these PED’s should follow in Andy, Brian and Gary’s foot steps with an apology. But I would like all players that have used these drugs, (not just the ones on some list which was composed from testimony and/or interviews of a handfull of witnesses/enablers’) and admit there error in judgement. But I disagree when you question, why would these so called witnesses/dealers, (who admitted their guilt, in providing, and or injecting players with these PED’s) lie after being given immunity from prosecution? Do you, or anyone else for that matter know if there was a falling out, or personal vendetta with any of the witnesses and the
player(s) they named. There is hard irrefutable evidence with a number of players, such as the paper trail of cancelled checks. But then we come to taking the word of a criminal, who knows he has know hard evidence except his word(and would you accept his word, I wouldn’t) He is also aware all he needs to do in this case is mention a name, he does not need to provide any other witnesses to collaborate his testimony. So where is the Justice for the accused, how does someone like Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, or for that matter any ballplayer clear their name when accused and there is NO PAPER TRAIL, NO POSITIVE DRUGS TESTS AND NO OTHER PERSON(S) WILLING TO ADMIT THAT THIS PLAYER IS GUILTY. WHAT WOULD THIS COUNTRY BE LIKE IF AN INDIVIDUAL WAS GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT? I just wanted to leave you with that thought: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT (Because that is what all news media’s are speading to sell more news papers and to receive higher TV ratings) And the saddest thing of all is the fans are all jumping on the bandwagon. If this was the old west, I think they’d be calling this a Lynch Mob.
I hope this is read by all fans, especially the ones that don’t believe someone is innocent till proven guilty. CURT, Thank you for all the memories on the field, you have been a pleasure to watch, even though you beat my Yankees. And yes I am a Yankee fan, but I am also a fan of baseball, and appreciate watching a great player (Even if they wear a Red Sox uniform)
Yours truly,
Lowell G.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:06 am
You’re awful. How many rings do you have without Randy Johnson or Josh Beckett? Suck it, Schilling.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:15 am
I thought we lived in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty? The burden of proof is on MLB to prove the guys listed in the Mitchel Report are guilty. This report named names without any evidence. Unfortunately, any innocent person named, will have to prove themselves INNOCENT because their reputations have, FOREVER, been TAINTED by this report. They can’t afford to wait till someones proves them guilty. This is what saddens me about this report.
You are correct about Mr Conseco. He didn’t come clean till he hit bottom. Unfortunately, he isn’t the first. This is human nature. We hang onto our pride till it slips our fingertips.
You make some good points about Barry Bonds. Why would an innocent man leave a friend hang out to dry? Why would that friend go to jail if he had nothing to hide? But I am hoping Barry Bonds is innocent.
I hear the label, ‘cheater(s)’, being attached to those who have used steroids/hgh. What about the athletes coming off a hangover from other ‘drugs’ and who aren’t performing at 100% for their team? As an athlete, you know who they are. I am not trying to justify the use of steroids, but think this whole ‘witch hunt’ is hypocrisy. At least the steroid user does so with intent to perform at their highest level.
Finally, why are athletes going to these extremes? I am not trying to deflect personal responsibility, but unless you get at the root problem, something like this will happen in the future.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:16 am
Discussions like this make me glad I watched Ripken and Gwynn enter the hall this year -could be the last time I watch for a while.
Pete’s chances have dramatically improved in the last 7 days, I wonder what Fay Vincent would have done -were this on his watch.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:19 am
granted you have your position, but i still come from the fact that none of these athletes broke any laws or rules of the day. only barry possibly purgered himself (let’s wait for his day in court). and if you want to start taking away awards and records, you’ll have to deal with the drug use of the 70’s and 80’s, the alcoholism throughout all the years i.e. ruth, mantle, martin, hoyt, etc……. . every decade has had it’s scandal, and baseball catches up, creates new rules and deals with it. but you can’t demand that these accomplishments be erased when then were won fairly given the climate of the time.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:19 am
Curt,
I agree with robert0259… as another lifelong yankees fan/redsoxhater, I must admit that you give an honest and very intelligent assessment of the Mitchell report and the players named. I checked out the blog after reading a snippet of it from cnn.com which basically suggested that you were attacking clemens, you obviously were not, you merely analyzed his situation from your insightful perspective.
Thanks for your input. I take back everything I’ve ever said about you in the past (only baseball related, obviously, but still).
Sarah
December 20th, 2007 at 2:23 am
Curt Schilling needs to shut up. I really dislike this jerk. All he is is a mouth and an overrated, has-been pitcher.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:26 am
Schill,
It’s been said that SPORTS are a reflection of SOCIETY as a whole …. none of what is happening to baseball and sports in general should be a surprise to anyone. We live in a get rich quick world (by any means possible), regardless of the consequences.
The real shame is that guys like BONDS and CLEMENS “were” good enough to be Hall of Famers with the talent they already had. I feel that all of their records should be wiped-off the books, as if they never played “the game”. (that’s what it used to be.)
People today don’t realize that the one thing BASEBALL has over every other sport is it’s deep HISTORY, comparing today’s players to players of eras gone by. Having conversations with father’s, uncle’s and grandfather’s about the players they grew up with. Unfortunately now, there’s going to be a HUGE VOID in this conversation called the STEROID ERA.
What I don’t understand is why people aren’t holding the owners and especially the Commissioner accountable? Why haven’t McGwire and Palmeiro been arrested for purgery? Why haven’t the players’ named been arrested… aren’t steroids illegal to obtain? Why hasn’t the MEDIA been harder on BASEBALL to get ALL the names of the players? Why haven’t people been asking WHY?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:27 am
if it walks like a duck……well you know the rest…….always did think Clemens was a phony……now he pulls a Mark McGuire……good post Curt
December 20th, 2007 at 2:27 am
Curt,
You are most definately on the money with this one. I feel if guys like roger clemens and barry bonds cant prove their innocence that awards like the cy young, mvp awards and even barry bonds homerun record should be stripped. If they did it, they should fess up to it. I give guys like Petitte and roberts alot of credit for coming out and admitting to there mistakes. Though it doesnt make it right, cause in my eyes its still cheating at least they came clean about it. Thank you Curt for saying what alot of us fans hoped someone would say on this topic. Look forward to seeing u and the sox repeat in 08. Go Sox and have a great xmas Curt.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:34 am
post 89 says it all…..wished I/Curt would have thought of it
December 20th, 2007 at 2:34 am
Curt,
I dont know where to begin. You have just composed the single most idiotic, self centered and moronic post I have ever read. Where I once thought you repulsive for how fat you look in your uniform, I find that your intellect is just as flawed. For someone who is supposed to be such a patriot, you obviously don’t know much about the justice system.. DUH!!!! Innocent until proven guilty!! And how in the hell does one properly defend onesself from unsupported hearsay from a couple of clubhouse flunkies? If you go heavy in the press and deny it, it creates a greater appearance of guilt, if you don’t comment at all you look like youre hiding. Whats really behind your post is that you are jealous of Clemens’ success. You have always wanted to be him but were never good enough. Roger on steroids, Roger clean it wouldn’t matter. YOU COULD NEVER COMPARE TO HIM. Your only true claim to fame is that BS bloody sock. And when a few people had the NERVE to question Curt shilling….WHOA you start whining like a little bi*** about how you’ll pay someone a million bucks if they can prove it’s not your blood on the sock. I don’t know how you look in the mirror, or better still, how you call yourself a Christian….you are a disgrace. Do everyone a favor, retire and go away somewhere. Get your sock back from Cooperstown and wipe your oversized butt with it, because that’s about what it is worth. Oh and one more thing, your defense of Sen. Mitchell is touching… Why would he let you be included in the report? You make money for him, he’s not gonna let you get any s***from the fan on you!
December 20th, 2007 at 2:35 am
Curt you fat idiot, if you were half the player or man that Clemens is you wouldn’t have some stupid blog where you feel you can pipe off about anything and everything. You are a simple uneducated moron, leave good players alone just because you’re not in a club of people who matter in the game of baseball don’t be jealous that Roger has a cy young and will be in the hall and you won’t
December 20th, 2007 at 2:36 am
Mr. Schilling, I’m a big fan of yours. I love the Red Sox, and I love the game of baseball. And I’m no fan of steroids, but I suppose this is not an altogether remarkable statement, nor is it the point of my response to your post.
My reply has to do with your comments concerning guilt and innocence. I am frankly a bit troubled by your apparent belief that, concerning steroid use, the burden of proof falls on the accused, rather than on the accusers. Can you imagine a world governed by this sort of principle? Exactly how easy would it be to prove, in all cases, that you DIDN’T do what you are accused of having done?
My point here is that anyone can make an accusation, but proof is something altogether different. And one’s innocence doesn’t depend on securing a team of lawyers and seeking restitution. Guilt or innocence depends on the simple fact of having done or not done a specific action. Until such time that a given ballplayer’s actions are better known, the only responsible position for us to hold is a neutral one. I do not know if Roger Clemens did or did not use steroids. Therefore, I suspend judgment until more is known. In the meantime, he cannot be justly considered guilty merely because he fails to hire lawyers and file suit. His Cy Young’s cannot justly be stripped from him because he didn’t prove that he didn’t do something–something which, by the way, hasn’t been proven that he actually did.
Of course, you are a professional ballplayer, and I am not a ballplayer at all. I understand that you have a certain inside awareness of the kinds of habits that exist in Major League Baseball that I am simply not privy to. That said, my point stands. Demanding proof of innocence, rather than proof of guilt, is an unfair and inhumane practice–one that is beneath people of conscience. It is neither wise nor moral to assume guilt when the evidence is inconclusive.
Thanks for reading. And I still think you’re great.
W
December 20th, 2007 at 2:37 am
Schilling:
Who died and appointed you arbitor of all that is right or wrong with the world. Opinions are like as*holes, pal…everybody has one….or in your case, is one!
There was never a day in your life when you were half the pitcher Clemens is. When the tally is taken many years from now, everyone will know the name “Clemens”….. the name “Schilling” will be some obscure inconsequential footnote buried deep in the bowels of baseball history.
Oh, by the way, Curt-ass, don’t entertain any ideas of ending up in the HOF…ain’t gonna NEVER happen Cap’t!
p.s. ….and Barry jacked you and watched the longball clear the fence….boo hoo for little Curt…whine to your old lady you bedwetter.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:39 am
Curt, one big problem with your view is that you keep saying Clemens or others should file a lawsuit for defamation if they have been wrongly accused. I don’t know if Clemens will file a defamation suit, but I can tell you that any decent libel lawyer would advise Clemens that he has virtually zero chance of winning a defamation suit against Mitchell, EVEN IF EVERY ALLEGATION AGAINST HIM IS FALSE. The Supreme Court, in NY Times v. Sullivan, created an extremely high bar for public figures when it comes to defamation. If a public figure tries to sue for defamation, he has the burden to prove 1) the statement was false, and 2) the person who made the statement knew it was false or acted with reckless disregard as to whether it was true or false.
Let’s assume Clemens wanted to sue George Mitchell for defamation. First, Clemens would have to prove he did not take steroids in 1998 and 2000. How would he do that? In fact, how would YOU prove you didn’t take steroids in 1998 and 2000? There really is no way — he doesn’t have videotape of every waking minute during those years. All he could do was testify that he didn’t do it.
But let’s assume he somehow overcomes that obstacle — maybe a jury would just believe him over his trainer. He still loses! Any court will hold that George Mitchell did not act with reckless disregard when he believed a man who was telling him the story about Clemens in the presence of federal investigators who said they would send him to prison if he were not truthful. That’s why Mitchell felt free to make these allegations — he knew the law protected him. (Believe me, if this were England, where the burden in court would have been on Mitchell to prove the allegations true, he never would have published those findings based on the uncorroborated word of one man.) Thus, any decent lawyer would tell Clemens he could not win.
Clemens would have a better chance against McNamee, but not much. Again, the burden would be on Clemens to show the allegations would be false. Since it would be just one person’s word against the other, if a jury decided it just couldn’t decide who was telling the truth, Clemens would lose.
Finally, you stated that it seems McNamee would have every reason not to lie. Actually, criminals who make deals with the prosecutors in exchange for testimony have often lied. The better the story they have for the prosecution, the better treatment they can get. If McNamee told prosecutors he had bought steroids, but didn’t give them to anyone, the prosecutors would have had no incentive to reduce the charges against him. The juicier (no pun intended) story, the better for him. I have no idea if he told the truth or not, but don’t assume he had no reason to lie.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:50 am
Hello Mr. Schilling as a lifelong yankee fan of course my feelings will be conceived as biased but 1st please hear me out. I realize that what is staring at Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte is the epitome of what is wrong in professional sports and I could’nt agree more that it needs to be fully taken control of and a stop needs to be put to it. But let me ask you a few questions do you in your baseball experience and knowledge of the game really think that these are the only high profile players in either league or or any team doing performance enhancing drugs? If you do then you might be the biggest fool in baseball and even though I don’t agree with you on alot of things I do agree that this is a dark and bad present and past for the wonderful sport of baseball. Therefore with that being said I don’t think in your right mind that you feel or believe that these players so far named are the only offenders of the drug usage running rampant in major league baseball. I’m sure as all major leaguers are that until a test comes to light that can detect HGH and truly catch the cheaters the sport will have a dark cloud over it and it will for the forseeable future. But all I have to say in closing is this Andy Pettitte was and still is a hero of mine albeit he has lost the golden boy image now did he cheat,,yes he did yes he used a substance and got the advantage of healing quicker than usual as a result and that is cheating no ifs ands or buts. But at least to me he showed some intestinal fortitude and guts something his best buddy has lacked and he came forward and said yes I used HGH to heal and never have again. Well to me it’s no excuse it’s no easy out but at the very least like Jason Giambi before him he showed the world he was not going to try and weasel out of this, unless the Rocket comes out takes a lie detector test and puts it all on the table he is the ultimate loser here his legacy his name his legend all but gone and in the process taking a little bit of the heart out of all baseball fans so in closing Mr. Schilling knothtis. I respect you as a competitor I respect you as a human being but I hope you realize before you throw stones at a glass house that you might very well be teamamtes with some fellows who live in that same glass house, thank you for your time, and GO YANKEES!!!!!
December 20th, 2007 at 2:52 am
Regarding Clemens, CS, shut your trap. I’ll throw it out there; I allege that you used performance-enhancing drugs. What reason do I have to lie – I’m anonymous and guaranteed immunity – Now, you prove me wrong. Go ahead, try and prove a negative! Unless you have first hand knowledge that YOU CAN PROVE, shut your trap. Asking Clemens to refute the accusations in order to keep is stats – you’re a joke!
It sickens me that anonymous people can lob these bombs behind closed doors, face no repercussions for their allegations and have them taken as fact unless proven false – and then have people like you offer up your slanted, holier than thou $!@#$ view. Stop try to validate your mediocre career by trying to bring the stellar career of others down to your level.
If it’s proven Clemens took it in the ass, then he’s scum and should be punished. But your view of ‘he did it and should be punished unless he can prove he didn’t’ is frankly pathetic.
CS – if you don’t have the balls to leave this post up then you’re more of $@#!$ than I thought.
Strike three – game over.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:55 am
As a life long Whitesox Fan of over 26 years I’ve been in shock the last few years over everything that has been said/written about professionial athletes using anything that can increase there ability to play the game at a higher level. I know there are a lot of allegations out there right now about a certain home run champion, I’m not gonna mention any names but I will say this as my own oppinion that I think this individual was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and got caught up in the deal because of people he knew and was around. Thats my statement on that situation but the real reason I came over to this site was because of something that Curt had said in this blog. It had something to do with Clemens and the record’s he has right now, and the amount of wins that he has after 1997 and the awards that was handed to him IE CY YOUNG AWARD. Curt I aggree strongly with you on that one but let me ask you this, if that goes for Clemens why not everyone else deplete there records, stat’s and more importantly AWARDS? I have to congratulate you MR. Schilling but hey if your gonna call out Clemen’s you have to call out players like Jason Giambi. Mr. so called MVP winner in 2000 when a certain legitimate power threat of the game finished 2nd behind him, a man who like yourself was ready to do what ever it took to take steroids away from the game back in March of 2005 and in case anyone doesn’t know who Im talking about any Whitesox fan will tell you that Frank Thomas was the MVP in 2000 and was cheated because of what Giambi took and did that year. I long to shake your hand and congratulate you on what you and the true players of the game have started and I do hope that this mess is over so that the real players of the game can step on to the field and make attempts at winning awards, and breaking records on true talent and abillity.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:55 am
Hey Curt…
How about you get off your high horse and prove that you have never taken steroids or HGH! And how about you realize that we live in the FREE United States of America and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. And I’m sorry that you aren’t even half the pitcher that Roger Clemens is, but that is no reason to go accusing him of things that you don’t have proof of. Why don’t you explain how you pitched on two days rest while your ankle was bleeding the entire game… mmmm… maybe some steroids helped you out????? Take a seat and get back to your off season preperation of bowing to the Yankees.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:06 am
Kurt,
Thank you for posting such a great article! You hit every point that was left to speculate in the recent report about the tie to the Mitchell report and the Redsox organization, and you left nothing to question.
As far as I see it…it is long over due that someone looks into the prefrential antics that go on in the locker rooms across the MLB organization, and the blanket that is provided to shelter the ones that clearly abuse what can be used to enhance someones season. This is also coupled with the luxury of warning a player when it is time to clean up for testing purposes and pass with flying colors. This is an injustice to the athletes that dont need to lean on sythetic means to achieve results! In my opinion, Mr. Mitchell stepping out is an act of heroism and the accusations of any team bias is only an attempt to hide credibility!
My only fear is “what next?” When you uncover a list of offenders like this…do you let it go without mention? Do you take action on every name mentioned and risk the vulnerability of those left out? and if no action is taken…can you ever hold someone as offensively liable as Barry Bonds accountable for what so many others appeard to have been involved in at the same time?
Regardless, thank you for always being a true competitor, and from the DBacks to the Red Sox Nation…always being a fan favorite! You are a true hero in the likes of very few!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:08 am
this has nothing to do with your blog. i watched this HBO special about the yankees making the world series after 9/11 happened. This is the year they lost to you in. There was a segment about how kim blew the save after you were taken out of the game. You said in commentary something along the lines of how you thought it was a mistake to take you out and how no one they brought to the mound would have been as good as you were. i think you are a !$@#$@ for saying that. How could you put down a team member like that? And cheers to the ketchup sock.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:09 am
Curt, as a Yankee fan, it’s hard enough for me to bring myself to this page, but your comments on Roger Clemens are legit. I think Roger Clemens is a coward, and for him to come out and say he did not do steroids is just another bold-faced lie from him, as was in 2003, when Clemens was supposedly “retiring”, and the Yankees presented him with all kinds of bonuses and farewell gifts. Clemens is a great pitcher, no doubt, but he doesn’t seem to be an honorable man. It’s as simple as this: If Andy Pettite took HGH and admitted to it, you know damn well Roger was doing it. And as a grown man, if you can’t tell the truth that your fans and sports fans in general need to know, then you don’t deserve to be making the money you are. Curt, I have the utmost respect for you as a player and a person, and I wish you well in the future, because you are a key part of my hatred for the Red Sox. Oh, and congratulations on winning another World Series, you’re just lucky you didn’t have to face the Yankees to get there, haha.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:12 am
Ok, first of all, I’m a lifelong yankees fan and I have to agree that saying that the mitchell report “singled out” (so to speak) the Yankees is bull. Do i believe that there are players in the boston organization that have used, or are currently using PED’s, absolutely, just like i believe that at least one person from every team has used or is using. PED’s, from the looks of things, have become a common factor in todays athletes, not only baseball players. Come on now, you have olympic gold medalists in cycling admitting to using PED’s. I think your blog was very well written and very intellectual and I have to agree with the majority of what you said, however, the part i cannot agree with is the part where you say to strip players of awards won, wins during the season, etc. The reason being, and i believe the “PTI” guys said it the best, you would open a “pandora’s box”. For example, to strip roger of wins during his 2001 regular season & his cy young, that would make an argument for each player to go back, every time they didn’t get a hit (Which happens quite often when facing the rocket) and erase that from their b.a, so does that mean every player that hit a homerun off the rocket should get that homerun erased as well? Do i have the answer? absolutely not, i don’t believe anybody has the answer to this debacle. The only thing i can honestly say is it’s a sad time for pro sports, from the things going on in the NFL with michael vick, to what is going on in baseball. It seems to me that pro athletes forget that they are role models for young children, whether you want to be or not, it comes with the title. Pro athletes (for the most part) worry about nothing more than money, there’s not desire for the game. And i said in the beginning i’m a die hard yankee fan, but, when you’re making 25 mil a year, and basically say it’s not enough, you need 28, there’s something wrong with you, you need to reevaluate yourself and your love for the game. (not mentioning any names, but i think we all know who i’m talking about) I always looked at you as one of the greats of your time but never really cared for you too much because of the team you play for. But, finding out about this blog and reading some of your posts i have a new found respect for you above just a great pitcher level.
God bless & happy holidays
P.S.-You really should think about finishing your career in NY, you’d look better in pinstripes than those silly red socks
December 20th, 2007 at 3:23 am
That was a good read, in general… My one question is when will people stop doubting Canseco?
At this point, Canseco has been dead on about players who used, but people still cast doubt when he mentions A-Rod? As you pointed out yourself, Curt, no one that Canseco has named as dopers, or has insinuated have doped up, has taken any legal action… And thus far, this includes A-Rod!
People can sit and trash Canseco’s character, but he wasn’t the one busted for using steroids within 5 months of calling his accuser a complete liar, and told the world he never used, ala Palmiero… Canseco isn’t the one that went into hiding after side stepping any and all questions about his own steroid use, not wanting to talk about his past, ala Mcqwire.
But one needs to seriously ask themselves… What makes a hall of fame bound player cheat after they’ve already done enough to be shoe-ins for the hall? Bonds was already being called the best all around player in decades, he already won 3 MVP’s (probably should have had more), was a 40/40 man, had multiple 30/30 seasons, 5 gold gloves, and 6 silver sluggers, between 1990 and 1997… Bonds, like him or not, was 10 times the player his peers were (minus probably Griffey), and doing so without alledgely using drugs… There is definately something wrong when THAT player feels the need to cheat.
And what’s worse, is that the very same sports writers who have been bashing Bonds for the last 8 years, about his possible use of drugs, also voted him the MVP in seasons they suspected he was using! They’d have probably still voted for Clemens for the Cy Young, regardless of whether they believe he used.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:38 am
Mr. Shilling. I respect your opinion as a professional and you seem to be a stand-up guy. Well. This time you blew it big-time. To require Clemens to prove his innocence, or whatever you choose to call it, is, well, illogical. You simply cannot logically prove that you did not do something. It is why innuendo is so effective, why asking a question about someone is much more damaging than making an accusation. So now you can claim you didn’t accuse Roger of anything. But you did set up an impossible task for him that would require, for him to meet your standards, that it would be impossible for him to keep those awards. If, Mr Shilling, you are serious, please prove you did not take HGH on May 9, 1992. Good luck, Mr. Shilling. This tape will self-destruct in 5 seconds. Seriously, I think you can challenge Roger to a lot of things. But please take a logic course and quit asking people to do the logically impossible. Don’t trust me, ask any logic teacher.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:40 am
Great Blog.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:42 am
Schilling,
Jim Rome has always had the same opinion about being falsely accused and mentions that if anyone called him out him he would issue a statement and scream from the rooftops that he was not guilty and would provide a blatant denial of the accusations, sue whoever accused him, etc. That is certainly what I would do if I was falsely accused of something that I did not do. I played D1 college baseball and there were a couple of guys who used steroids that admitted that they were users and I keep thinking about how I felt when I learned about what they were doing and honestly I did not care, that was their choice. I looked down on them and didn’t take them seriously, but that was their choice and I didn’t care. I didn’t want to be the rat and figured that the testing needed to be improved to eliminate the temptation.
I think that the Mitchell report took too long and the fans that have intimate knowledge about the inner workings of the game know that the stats have been tainted for years. I haven’t completely read the report and don’t remember all of the names of the accused, but I don’t recall seeing seeing Brady Anderson, Brett Boone, Mark McGuire or Keith Ginter to name a few of the guys who I suspect as a fan were users. Mitchell mentions that between 5-7% of the players were named in the report(I think) and that is definately not accurate, but he assumes that the problem is much larger than the evidence that he was able to assertain, which is definately very likely. His report should not be seen as the holy grail but one of the very first steps to eliminate the problem. I remember a conversation that I had with a former Braves farmhand who mentioned to me on an airport shuttle that the extent of users in the minor leagues was incomprehensible. He was 8-9 years deep in the system before he finally said the hell with the system because unless he started using he wouldn’t stand a chance to make it up to the big club.
I disagree that the records of these players should be taken away because it seems to me that we will never know exactly who was culpable and who was not. Take away Clemons Cy Young’s or Barry’s MVP’s and who is next in line? Was he a user? Or did his trainer keep his mouth shut? The Mitchell report points fingers and should be recognized as the truth until players dispute the accounts like you said, but the game has been tainted for years and the report is really the first step that we needed to stop the guys who continually use HGH (PED’s) and steroids to enhance their stats. Fay Vincent was just interviewed by Bob Costas and mentioned that he was told that drug tests should be considered IQ tests because the guilty haven’t taken the preventative measures needed to clear themselves of wrongdoing. Until we have a proven test for HGH who cares? Who can you trust?
December 20th, 2007 at 3:45 am
First, the Mitchell report is only the tip of the iceberg for steroid use in baseball since there are many more names of users that escaped being mentioned. We cannot have any asterix next to any records of the game as that would lead to a complete mess. It would be too subjective and would only work if we knew everybody that cheated and we’ll never know that. Some 15 or 16 years ago the WWF had a steroid scandal and it’s top star Hulk Hogan went on Arsenio Hall and denied being a steroid user and admitted to using a few times to “rehab” injuries. The video is available on the internet and was the precursor to players like Andy Petite and F.P. Santangelo using this cowardly defense. This explanation is used to evoke sympathy and justify the athlete’s mistake in judgement using HGH or steroids. Let’s face it, Petite and Santangelo are lying here and had months before the Mitchell report came out to ” man up” and admit they used steroids yet they did not. The bottom line is this, all of these players named in the report used steroids for one reason and that was to gain an edge and become better players. Let’s not be fooled by a carefully crafted story to protect someone’s legacy and reputation. We all need to understand this and realize that drug testing to include HGH will restore clean statistics back to baseball.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:53 am
Curt, I’m a die-hard Red Sox fan and I appreciate everything you have done but I’ve got to tell you, you talk too much. I understand that you have your opinions, but quit bringing unnecessary attention to you, the Red Sox and the Red Sox Nation. It’s not like you, or any other critic for that matter were vocal about this stuff years ago when it was happening. Why didn’t you, or anyone else make it an issue before Canseco did? No reason to point fingers now and be a hero. Keep your mouth closed, quit embarrassing the Red Sox and the Red Sox Nation, and spend your free time training to be injury free and a 20 game winner next year. That’s what your focus should be. That’s what you’re getting paid for.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:20 am
Schilling, Ive never been a huge fan, but now you really take the cake. Its easy for guys like you to kick people when they’re down, but not once have you ever came out and spoke against the problem before it got as huge as it is now. I think you should have to give your world series ring back because of your fake bloody sock. You are a hypochrite, and just another old man trying to stay in the spotlight with your self-rithous blog putting yourself on a pedastal and shunning everyone else. Have you ever heard of salad?
December 20th, 2007 at 4:34 am
Curt,
While I agree with your overall point, that people caught breaking the rules should not be rewarded over people playing by the rules, what if anything would taking Clemen’s Cy Youngs away actually do?
Baseball has a very trouble history and there are many times in its past that have been an embarrassment, but going back and changing the record books or redistributing the awards, while great for Randy Johnson, Pedro and Mulder in terms of recognition, seems like an exercise that baseball fans would not want.
Should we also redistribute all the awards prior to 1947 since black players were not allowed to play because baseball owners had an agreement to not allow players like Satchel Page and Josh Gibson a chance to show their stuff against white players? Its a Pandora’s box that sounds good at first but with the sorted past that accompanies baseball, the outcome would be even worse for the fans.
We, the players, fans, owners, media, should start to recognize the players who DID not cheat, guys like Pedro, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, R. Johnson and just simply move on and try to fix the problem.
You as a player have an opportunity to change this situation like Branch Ricky did with the 1947 Dodgers. Force your union to accept Olympic level testing, no fighting, no going to court over privacy rights. IF you want to be a MLB player you submit, no arguments, just like an Olympian who runs the 100 meters. If not? well have fun being an accountant, but I hear they drug test as well =).
I am sorry, but the players and the MLBPA are mostly to blame here. Fix the problem and people will watch the games with the same vigor and enthusiam as before. Not moving on this issue now and giving the awards to the 2nd place Cy Young finishers does nothing to solve the problem.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:34 am
Curt,
I totally agree with you about why these players who have been mentioned in the Mitchell Report haven’t come forward yet to try to clear there name. Obviously either
A) Their laywer is on vacation
or
B) They are guilty
People stop with the whole people are innocent until proven guilty. Sure your right they are innocent right now. To a man though, if your being accused of something of this magnitude wouldn’t you want to clear your name to save your career and your perception to other people?? I mean there is nothing to hold back right if your innocent? It is their RESPONSIBILITY to show to the fans and the world that they really are innocent.
By the way Curt I think what you have going here with your blog is a great thing. The fact that you put so much time and effort into interacting with fans everyday on this blog is truley amazing and something you don’t see a lot with people of your “celebrity status.” I think it just proves what kind of person you are and how much you care about other people. I admire this. I wish your qualities were more common among players and celebrities in the world. I think this blog is great in the fact that you can connect with fans on a more personable level and well as creating great discussion. This post is a little over a day old and look at all this great discussion on this topic. That is what is important…discussion between people.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:41 am
Mr.Schilling your numbers was wrong on Roger.
Roger has 213-118 record not 192. He won three Cy young when He left Redsox not four what you said was wrong..
That’s Roger before 98.
he still gets in the H.O.F period.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:07 am
Curt:wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take away all Babe Ruth’s records- he was drunk half the time
Take away all Lou Gehrigs records – he was on a lot of medication-
AND HOW LONG WOULD THAT LIST BE? All the players that drank beer during prohibition- records gone- it was then an illegal substance.
Your jealousy of Clemens is showing bad. I went to Pawtucket to watch you pitch in the minors this year. Never again would I even drive across town to see you or any other ball player major league or otherwise.
RedSox executive (Mitchell) runs an investigation- Clemens is such a liked guy in Boston-NOT- what did you expect would come from such a biased -selfserving report?
I thought you had some brains Curt- guess I was wrong-
your washed up and your carreer is in its last year.
Give up fat boy- you couldn’t carry Clemens’
sox- medication or no medication.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:19 am
Sup Ngruk! Long time.. Not sure whether you remember me or not, but we played EQ2 together. I figured I’d just write to say what’s up. I played the bratty monk, Ledbetter lol. And I know this has nothing to do with your blog entry, but yeah.. Didn’t even know you had a blog until ESPN.com reported your most recent comments. I played WoW for about two years before recently putting that aside. Are you still involved in GMG? Anything other than that?
If you ever feel like talking games or whatever toss me an email @ Ledbetterus@gmail.com
December 20th, 2007 at 5:34 am
Curt:
Thanks for taking the time to put together such a thorough, insightful response to the past week’s events. It’s funny to see how quickly your posts become news around the sports world. And, hey, you can’t say the media aren’t reporting your true words.
So, a couple of questions:
1) What’s the cost of just doing nothing? In other words, what if Bud Selig just declares amnesty for past abusers — no investigations or punishments, no altering record books or reshuffling awards? What’s the impact on the game if MLB simply says ‘We can’t change the past, but we can shape the future …?’
2) What do you hear from your kids? I’m really curious how this story impacts young people who are watching and learning the game, shaping their own outlooks on life and fair play. What’s their take on it all?
best,
Tom
December 20th, 2007 at 5:34 am
Gee, I always thought it was up to the accuser to prove his argument.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:04 am
Hey Schill !
Very strong opinion from you. I respect the man or woman who speaks their mind.
The short of this, MLB and the owners have turned a blind eye to this problem for years and now that the dirty laundry is being aired when do THEY assume some of the responsibilty ? The owners and MLB gave birth to the baby and now that baby has become a monster of a problem. They need to own up before the players will. How big is Selig’s shoulders anyway ? We will soon find out.
One note on Canseco. I can remember a certain playoff game at Fenway against the Oakland A’s and he was playing right field. We were sitting in the bleachers and the steroid chant started. Jose turned around and gave everyone a HUGE smile. Soooo telling.
Thanks !!
December 20th, 2007 at 6:35 am
Sorry, this is not a great post. In the U.S. you are innocent until proven guilty! (like the West Memphis gang were!) Unless you were in the locker room when the steroids were administered you really have no first hand knowledge of Roger taking steroids.
All we have is hearsay from a less than honorable coach, probably trying to make a name for himself and Roger’s name mentioned in a two or three year time period for a couple of situations…..Do you know everything that you have been given over your career (I seriously doubt it). In retrospect, there is no doubt in my mind that at sometime in my past I could have been given a steroid without my knowledge!
If this less than honorable coach had said Schilling was given steroids, HOW in GODS name do you prove your INNOCENCE!
If you erase this post, it will speak volumes about your character!
December 20th, 2007 at 6:39 am
Hi Curt,
I’m a huge Yankee fan from the UK…I understand the Yankee dislike to you..especially after the “bloody sock”. You take a lot of stick for this blog and your “desire to spread your opinions to the world (big mouth).
But I really appreciate your honesty and eloquence. not many professional athletes speak with your intelligence and vocabulary.
I don’t always agree with your opinions (I do in this regard) but value your right to share them and I believe this blog gives a really valuable insight into the life of an elite professional athlete.
I wish more spotsmens’ blogs were as indepth and honest as yours.
thanks for you’re efforts…I still hope you suck in the Bronx in 08.
be well!
December 20th, 2007 at 6:39 am
Curt yet again your prove the world that you cant keep your big mouth shut. This report is sad! MLB players are a bunch of cheaters and its really sad. You guys play a game and get paid to do it! I understand its your job and your career but still when its all boiled down to it is a game! Why can’t you just keep your two cents out of everything? Get real man. Grow up its about time you did. I think you like to blog because you have no shot a the HOF and this is your way to keep relevant.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:41 am
You are one annoying, self-righteous, egocentric, narrow-minded, over-rated pig.
I guess your motivation for being so in love with your own opinions is that you have never won a Cy Yound award. Sour grapes are not attractive. Every time I hear or read a comment from you, I know it’s going to be a whiny little girl I hear. Ever since you supported that idiot in the white house so publicly, I’ve known that you must be a back-stabbing, goofball yourself. Shut up and play baseball.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:43 am
Curt,
December 20th, 2007 at 6:44 am
I want to let everyone know that I injected Curt Schilling with steroids.
There you go. I implicated him now he needs to prove me wrong or give up his world series rings. You see how easy it is to implicate someone.
Why should Roger have to defend himself from the allegations of one man.
I believe Roger has tremendous character and strong belief in family. I don’t believe he’s guilty and I don’t believe he should have to prove to anyone to the contrary. Why shouldn’t Roger get the benefit of the doubt after all he’s done throughout the years. How would Curt like getting named in the report knowing full well he’s not guilty of anything, yet having to throw open his entire personal life to the public, open all his financial records, testify in front of congress and god knows what else just to clear his name.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:46 am
One further thought about proving your innocence….. “Shoeless” Joe Jackson did prove his innocence in a court of law and for the most part in the court of public opinion…..and yet….he is still not in the Hall of Fame, simply because of inuendo and hearsay….. Roger is innocent of knowingly taking steroids until he says otherwise or it is proven. Yeah he could sue for defamation and he probably should, but if I sued everytime someone said something false about me, I’d never get anything done, except being in court everyday.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:48 am
While I disagree with the use of PED, there’s absolutely no way you could ever redistribute MVP, CY Young, or any other awards.
1) That’s not part of the penalty outlined in the Mitchell report. The Mitchell report covers what – 1 or 2 percent of MLB players – when many estimate that 20-30% or more were actually using some type of PED. The report is no way complete.
2) Who can prove that #2 or #3, etc. weren’t on PED at the time?
3) Where do you draw the line? HGH and Steriods result in names being stricken from the books, but ampetamines are ok? How many hits did someone get in a day game after a night game while on speed, or how many K’s was some closer able to throw to shut down the other team while pitching for the 3rd straight day on speed?
Just my opinion, but I think this era should be noted as a “steriod” or “PED” era when referring to all records during the time period.
What about offering “amnesty” to all named in the report as long as they agree to tell all – and ALL TEAMS (players, exec, trainers, etc.) are part of the new report – although I don’t believe it’s even worth the $$$ that this would cost.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:50 am
When will Curt Schilling just learn to shut his mouth. I have been dealing with his mouth and his all about me persona since his days here in Philly and every time I run into him in Philly. I am so sick of Curt portraying himself as the patron saint of baseball. He is a very good baseball pitcher and I respect him for that but he has been sticking it up every player who comes down the pike who has a problem. I wonder if Curt has actually spoken to Roger Clemens and discussed these findings. Way to help and support your fellow players you must be well liked around the clubhouseI will never forget him showing up Mitch Williams during the 93 series. Putting a towel over his head because he couldn’t bear to watch. Way to support your teamate. Stick to playing ball Curt and keep your mouth shut for once. Roger Clemens will still go down as the greatest right handed pitcher in the last 40 years. Good luck on getting yourself a Cy Young Award.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:50 am
Curt,
They are discussing why they think you are wrong about requesting that Roger return the Awards. If it works in all the international sports why not baseball now that you will be opening the season in Japan. It is the fact that the sport wants to be a worldwide force, but play by their own rules.
In the European continent they will mock us as a SPORT as much as they mock the President daily. They all live and die with their teams and players.
They will laugh it off as another Amerrican ploy to avoid responsibility. I also think they should do just as they said all games are forfited, think long term not short term.
Merry Xmass,
DSJK
December 20th, 2007 at 6:55 am
Every time you spout off about the steroids/hgh/performance enhancing drugs issues I have two overwhelming thoughts…1. Nice work, its refreshing to see someone stand up and take note that this needs to be addressed and addressed radically…I even agree with your comments on taking away Rogers Cy Youngs – I think they should also remove Barry Bonds HR Records and for what its worth 61 & 755 are still the numbers in my eyes. BUT that second thought keep popping up…and thats
2. I think your a hypocrit – I really do want to believe that your clean, I want to believe Manny’s clean and A-rod’s clean and a tonne of others as Ive watched some amazing feats the past 20 years that I dont want tainted…but I cant…this has become a guilty until proven innoncent issue similar to what they are going through in the Tour de France…Baseball’s a joke right now…but its still better then Football who just ignores the entire problem all together…i mean come on…in the 80’s the Hogs in Washington were the biggest offensive line in history and now none of them could start in the NFL because they’re all undersized (273lbs isnt that big anymore for some reason)
so here’s hoping your clean…for some reason you sounding off on these issues to me feels like your overcompensating and covering up something…I truly hope your not…and this is coming for a Yankees fan…who you beat up TWICE
btw…as someone who’s run the Boston Marathon a few times now…I think its pretty cool that your wife ran it and you were down to meet her at the finish line…
December 20th, 2007 at 7:01 am
I think it was a mistake for baseball to do this investigation without having some sort of idea of what to do with the findings. now that all these playes are under suspision for using performance enhancing drugs, what do you do with them? and the records or statistics that they have ? if baseball doesn’t have a fair and equatable plan they are making a huge mistake ! We are all well aware that life is not always fair, but what ever is to be done must be consistant no matter who the offender might be.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:04 am
It’s a sad era in baseball. Let’s pray it will end soon, and we can get back the game we love.
Baseball has always involved cheating (outfielders trapping balls and claiming a fair catch, the mystery tag, spit balls, corked bats, balks, stealing signs, and so on), but there is something just so sickening about taking drugs and hormones to become better than other players. The damage that it has done can never be erased, but maybe by identifying it and villifying the abusers, it can help prevent the next generation from using.
Credit should be given to those who excel without cheating, and those who show that you can be great without PED’s. There is no way to take away past awards, just as there is no way to take away a pitcher’s wins because of using a doctored ball, or a players stolen bases because they should have been called out.
Testing needs to be stepped up, punishments need to be harsher, and players who juice need to be removed from the game – not just suspended. It is disheartening to watch the game we love award players like Bonds with homerun titles when it is known that he used steroids.
Please keep doing what you do and please disregard those who tell you to “shut up”. No one is forcing them to read your blog or to listen to what you say. Having a baseball player speak out against what is going on in baseball is one of the ways PED’s can be beaten.
Thank-you. Merry Christmas.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:06 am
Curt, personally I think you should keep your mouth shut until you know the truth. Even then you should not comment. I don’t care who you are, every player has taken an illegal substance or something to enhance their performance. How about you in the bloody sock game???? Don’t even tell me you weren’t shot up with pain killers. Is that right? It enhanced your performance didn’t it? Yeah, all too often people like you come out and comment on every damn story. Do everybody a favor…….KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
December 20th, 2007 at 7:09 am
First of all I’d like to state I’m not a yankee fan! But schilling needs to shut his mouth until these things are found to be true. The whole country is laughing at this report and the fact that mitchell works for the red sox. Are red sox fans that stupid to believe that no red sox players other then the ones mentioned have used hgh? It’s almost like the 86 years of crying from red sox fans about how the yankees could buy a world series but now that the red sox do it it’s ok! Schilling , do baseball & the fans a favor and shut up.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:10 am
Interesting stuff, Curt. But where were you when your opinion and knowledge could have helped – when Senator Mitchell asked to speak with you and when you saw this going on as a player?
December 20th, 2007 at 7:10 am
Could someone please tell me how “cheating” with steroids is different than “cheating” with greenies, speed, caffiene, files, vaseline, sandpaper, corked bats, and every other thing players have tried to get away with for an advantage? ‘Roids might make one bigger, but they don’t make him hit the ball better, or pitch with more accuracy or with a strategic advantage. I’m tired of hearing how steroids are considered cheating, but how many players smoked pot to wind down and relax, or party, after a game, thus making them more up for the next game, thus giving them an advantage over those who didn’t. The examples are endless, and nearly every player in nearly every sport has tried to gain an advantage in some way that is against “the rules”. You get caught, pay the penalty, and learn from your mistakes. Why all the stone throwing from those who say they haven’t sinned? Does it make them feel more righteous? I imagine 50 to 90% of the players in the HOF cheated one way or another, and without doing ANY research, I bet many of them got caught during their careers! Now we must crucify cheaters?
BTW, I’m a HUGE fan of Curt Shilling–I have the UTMOST RESPECT for the man and his work and dedication……and of Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens, and most other pitchers. I live and die with pitching not hitting, having been a pitcher for many years myself. I’m a fan of the game, but married into Red Sox nation so that’s where my money has gone the last 6 years.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:11 am
Curt,
You and your love, that is the sound of your own voice, ought to get a room and spare us all from your public groping.
Being articulate and making good points should not be confused with good judgment and discretion, of which you possess little. Who are you to judge anyone?
I am disgusted with steroids, HGH, weak denials in response to the he said/she said Mitchell report and overall greed. Greed is what drives all of this, the players who use and the owners who looked the other way and now use McCarthyism to cover their tracks.
Greed is also what I believe drives you, a man who lists which other teams he wants to play for the very day of a TEAM and FAN celebration of victory in the World Series.
Just get in shape and pitch, please.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:11 am
Good article, Shill.
Just want to make a quick statement here about ‘innocent until proven guilty’ that has been tossed around in dealing with the PEDs. This is not a court of law in the American Justice System, so that right isn’t applicable here. And even on the remote chance it was, the rules of evidence would be so lax as to be nonexistent.
Like Shill said, if they didn’t do it; prove it. Unfortunately, their silence has been deafening.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:12 am
Curt, and the rest of you self-righteous yahoos: Tell me that William Faulkner didn’t use alcohol to improve his game. What about Salvadore Dali? Warhol? Lennon? Of course the list is as long as human history, and almost every artist and performer throughout hisory USED something to enhance the quality of his/her product.
It’s silly to include ballplayers on a list containing the names above, but all of guys who USED were being nothing other than human.
They are not “bugs” to be held at arm’s length, and they are not criminals. They are you and I equipped with exceptional talent for a game.
For the sake of the game’s stats, use asterisks is you want, but PLEASE do not start castigating them for being human beings; otherwise, we have affix the little star to The Cask of Amontillado, Moby Dick, The Red Badge of Courage, Light in August, The Persistence of Memory, The Great Gatsby, and/or G-L-O-R-I-A.
This is life, folks. Look into the mirror.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:14 am
Curt,
I have been a fan of yours, more or less, for several years, save your now and again rants. One time I recall when you didn’t use more than rhetoric to address an issue; the infamous ‘bloody sock’. I say, put your money where your mouth is and pay for a forensic analysis of ‘the sock’. If you don’t it should be taken from its showcase and stuffed in your pie hole.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:16 am
“If you plan on writing some idiotic off the cuff rant slanted one way or another feel free to close the page now, it will be deleted. The opinion I am offering is mine and mine alone. ”
In my view, the above is some ways indicitive of what is a issue. Baseball and the San Francisco Chronicle investigates possible substance abuse. It is their investigation, their opinions, their facts. If a player does not agree with them prove it.
Really, Mr. Schilling, you can’t have a system of laws and not men without due process and all the rights entailed and you cannot post a blog and then rule out disagreement. Well, actually you can but both are leading to the same bad end. What if the day comes when it is you on the other end of guilt by accusation, and the blogs are just someone’s opinion, so don’t think you can comment.
I have no idea who used what, when, if and how and if you do this is still not the proper forum to settle this matter. Equal protection under the law applies to you and Roger Clemeans and Jose Canseco and the strength trainers and it applies EQUALLY. I think if you have evidence offer it under oath to the appropriate body, otherwise let there be a process, not a public trial by opinion. This is dangerous ground for all of us.
You are a Christian man, Jesus said “Judge not least ye be judged.”
Merry Christmas
December 20th, 2007 at 7:22 am
Curt – I think using painkillers and stitching up your ankle before a game is performance enhancement. You should give back your 2004 ring. THIS IS MALARKY! Who do you think you are to sit back and judge? How’s this sound – You should have to give everything you have worked for back until YOU PROVE YOU DIDN’T USE STEROIDS. I’m not facing jail time, so doesn’t that make me more credible than McNamee? For such a so-called patriot, you seem to forget that in this country, a man is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:25 am
curt you’re an idiot.Just shut up and finish up you’re corny career.You always have to add your 2 cents into everything.Now you can yack about someone other than Bonds.They need to take back your phony WS ring for faking an ankle injury.Shut up and let the authorities handle it.You’re a nobody with a big mouth.You’re just jealous that you never did or will ever wear Yankee pinstripes.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:25 am
P.S. Curt’s condemnation of Clemens is self-serving as is his blog, his Bush commercial, and almost every other thing that he does to maintain the public’s attention. I know, I know, I know he does some very good work for sick kids. Of course he is to be commended for that.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:27 am
Why do you think anyone gives a crap what you think? And..When did you become the spokesperson for major league baseball? Every time an issue comes up you start flapping those unattractive jaws. I know Roger Clemens is your hero and I know your dream of winning a single cy young is comming to an end but get over it! I guess since you get no attention on the field you have to stir up some in the off season. You suck and I would be really surprised if you hadn’t taken steriods. I really hope this is your last year pitching. I speak for many redsox fans like myself when I say..”Fenway will be a better place without you”. “You give the RedSox jersey a bad name!” You have no class! You are not a professional. You should be more like Derek Jeter. Even though I hate the yankees..Jeter is the definition of a professional baseball player. He plays the game and keeps his mouth shut!
December 20th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s any way baseball can take such extreme action as erasing clemens cy young awards. Where would you draw the line of “erasing statistics”. There’s no way to prove concretely exact cycles and when the players were most effected…more at the beginning of the season or at the end of the season…was it the year he hit 20 home runs vs 15 homeruns?? Its unrealistic. Also, Curt didn’t comment on the folks NOT on the list. Do we really think the people on the report were the only ones using? Innocent until proven guilty? How about–now we have to worry about anyone that was super successful during that era, did they use or didn’t they? Why not question any 40-something year old pitcher….Curt is finishing his career a lot more successfully than Clemens did….
December 20th, 2007 at 7:36 am
My only comment is relatively brief. Curt, you ask Clemens to refute that he has taken PED’s. Well he has. Isn’t the burden of proof in our great country STILL on the accuser and not on the “innocent”. For the record, I think he did and has been doing it for a long time, but for all of us to call him out; and others, to disprove something that their accusers cannot in fact prove to begin with is against what our troops are even fighting for. We as Americans took this road long ago and I wish I knew where it forked at so we could go back and take a look. As it stands now we can have someone so much as breathe and untruth into another’s ear and we all start taking it as gospel, and we all start running with it because it’s “good news” or “a good story”. It may not be true, but it’s sells papers. At this juncture the “innocent” must not provide hard evidence that what was said is untrue rather than any accuser prove that what they said is true. Curt, I have all the respect in the world for you and for the readers of this blog, but we ALL must realize what we are doing. Let the “innocent” prove their innocence when they have to, not because someone said something.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Clemens doesn’t have to prove anything to keep his Cy Young awards. What a silly notion. If Clemens is proven to have taken steroids, then ok, think about how you address it with the awards issue. But just because someone squeals to a former Senator who named names based on flimsy hearsay doesn’t mean you have to put together a legal team to prove a negative in order to keep your awards. You’re a great pitcher, but a lousy thinker.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:38 am
All I can say is thank you for educating me on how to evaluate steroid users statistics. I had absolutely no clue how to go about this and it was certainly a pressing issue on my mind. For what its worth, I just stripped 85 wins from your numbers.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:39 am
I respect the perspective that you put forth. I do, however, disagree that Roger Clemens should have to give anything up at this point. McNamee does not come off as “proof”. Legally it only meets “suspicion”.
To move forward on the whole issue of illegal drugs in MLB will require the majority of players to tell the union to work with Selig. Until that occurs then this truly is just the media’s Salem Witch Hunt.
It is unfortunate that the focus, for the most part, is on HGH and steroids. Greenies have been used and abused for a much greater time in MLB. So to hear Pete Rose or any former player cry about the steriod age is hypocritical. Many in the past, as well as many in the future, will always attempt to get any advantage regardless if it is legal or not. Which again brings us back to the real issue here, until the players union agrees to make more than lip service changes then the problem will continue.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:43 am
Curt,
Even though I am a diehard Yankee fan, I respect you as a man of belief. I am glad that you have commended Andy Pettitte for his “coming out” and accepted his apology.
Did you here David Justice’s comments? I believe him as well, even though he denied the reports accuracy. You should listen to him before passing judgment.
On a side note; Barry standing at home plate made you not like him… did you stop liking Manny when you noticed he does that too? Or is it just the hitters that do it to you that turns you off?
To me, the fact that the report is accurate in Andy’s case, and inaccurate in David’s case, shows that it has flaws.(If you believe Andy, why not David?) And by the way, I don’t believe Roger, but; innocent until proven guilty, right?
Thanks,
Keith
December 20th, 2007 at 7:47 am
As a fan I am aggraveted, annoyed and feel cheated that some of baseballs great records and milestones have been achieved though cheating. My problem with taking away records or Cy youngs it that baseball has always had cheaters in some form or another. Some that have relished the role as a cheater. Gaylord Perry had a shirt that said “300 wins is nothing to spit at at”. He cheated he’s in the HOF, everyone knows he’s doctored the ball and no one cares. Why is this different?
December 20th, 2007 at 7:49 am
Mr. Schilling, you remain one of the game’s real stand-up guys, and this is coming from a Yankee fan. (That rivalry thing gets blown way out of proportion anyway.) Your post addressed so much beyond PEDs and sports. Regarding not just Clemens but others too, one of the toughest parts to balance is that while witnesses, physical evidence, etc. can prove someone did something, it’s not always possible to “prove” they didn’t do it. Bonds’ biggest issue – well, aside from all his other issues – may not turn out to be that he took PEDs, but that he took it upon himself to mislead an investigation. (Doesn’t he know that’s what got Martha sent to the big house?)
December 20th, 2007 at 7:50 am
My main problem with this whole concept of “proving” your innocence is the fact that it is almost impossible to do so. That is why in a court of law it is left up to the prosecution to “prove” you are guilty. Nothing in the Mitchell Report was taken under oath. I believe that there could be a couple reasons why the accuser or accusers would lie. First to try and be able to cut a deal at a later time to get out of procesecution themselves and/or to make their part more important or news worthy. Please do not try and tell me the latter is not possible. The old saying even negative news is good publicity still is true when you may want to shop a book or movie deal around. Now, I am not saying this is happening or will happen I am just stating that perhaps there may be ulterior motives to the dropping of famous names. Until this is done in a court of law I will presume innocence and not require innocence to be proven.
Have a great day!
Kat
December 20th, 2007 at 7:51 am
I find it amazing that so many of you people posting are taking Curt’s words as some sort of eternal truth. It’s an opinion. An opinion of a man who is fallible, an opinion of a man who evidently has done nothing wrong. There’s a hundred that begin with “Curt, I couldn’t agree with you more…” UGH! Quit kissing his big old butt.
Juicing happened. So what. Get over it. For most of the time it happened, it wasn’t even illegal.
And Curt, I’m still waiting to hear if you ever scuffed a baseball, ever used a substance on a baseball to get an advantage. Cheating is cheating… How many of your wins should we take away from you? Should we also take away your rings, your salaries? Where does it end?
Incredible how a “Christian” – at least that’s what someone posted above – becomes so judgmental. Dude, you need a good serving of humble pie, because evidently you are never wrong.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:53 am
I really don’t understand how people can come here and hack on Curt for stating his opinion on his website. I think in a free country he has just as much right as the next person regardless of whether or not that person holds a job in the public eye.
It’s really quite simple people…You don’t like what the man has to say then don’t read. Go surf somewhere else.
As for Jose Canseco….Hey Mike Greenwell is still waiting on the delivery of his MVP trophy.
I am thankful my grandmother passed before this mess came about. She absolutely adorded Roger Clemens. Gulity or not you can’t help but have a bad taste in your mouth when it comes to Roger.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:54 am
Curt,
First time here, Cool website and I like that you speak out and allow others to comment. I read your blog today, yes, I have questions and a suggestion.
This information (report) that is out in the public is only the tip of the iceberg? And the fact that some of the best player sin the sport are on PEDs is disturbing becasue this shows that PEDs do give you a big advantage and it tempts our youth, with those results (Bonds?, Clemens? etc) when the offenders are not punished, they get away with it. What can we parents do to let MLB know we want MLB cleaned up for the sake of our 12 year olds?
We can put our voices together as parents. One voice will not be heard by the union nor by Bud Selig, but 100 leagues in each state across the country? it may even add up to some bucks? Our local youth baseball league will save $7,000 by not putting MLB names on our uniforms in 2008. This was not done as a protest but to save some money but…
That gave me this idea….
…. have other little leagues and youth leagues do the same…
MLB – Major League Boycott for 2008 ! (licensing fee)
It is not reasonable to expect fans to not watch or go to the games because – We do LOVE our baseball. It is not fair to the honest players to shut down baseball. Nothing will likely happen to the cheaters, they may not likely be suspended without a positive drug test. This is one thing that we can do as a nation- Did you know that youth baseball leagues all around our country pay MLB for the right o put MLB team names on their shirts????
In light of the Mitchell Report,
I Call on all responsible youth and little leagues organizations to forgo the fee. Do not pay MLB for the right to wear MLB team names on your little league baseball shirts in 2008.
This will not significantly hurt the MLB pocketbook (that is not the intent) but this would send one heck of a message, if the moms and dads that run youth baseball were to come together to send this message at this historic time. We Can and should make our voices heard as parents. Heard round the world. Steroids are not just an MLB problem they are a problem in every sport and have been for a long time. But baseball is America’s game and it is time for America to send a message. So join me.
Our 12 year olds will soon be faced with a choice, when they get to high school, they will likely have access to steroids, lets tell our boys what we did and why we did it. Send a meesage to MLB this winter. It is not up to Bud Selig to fix everything on his own, let us parents make a (small) statement ourselves.
spread the word
December 20th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Obviuosly, I am a Yankees fan. I hate the Red Sox with every fiber of my being. However I do respect the run they have had recently. The Sox have been the best team or second best team for a number of years now.
I have to take exception with some of the things Curt Schilling has said about the roids issue and the Mitchell report. It was reported in the New York Post on December 20th that Curt said how Roger Clemens should give back the Cy Young awards he earned since 1997. First of all Clemens has not failed a drug test or made an admission to using. And we would have to believe that in the ‘Steroids Era’ of baseball that many of the hitters that Clemens has faced during his career were juicing. That said should we also take away every HR that Barry Bonds has hit since that 73 HR season? It is not going to happen. We would have to re-write the record books for every player over the last 20 years. In that case why don’t we just strip every World Series champ in the last 20 years?
Let’s also look at who the Mitchell report was based on. The guys that have been talking were under the employment of the Yankees and the Mets. Radomsky and McNamee. No wonder why there are so many Yankees and Mets in the report. These 2 individuals are speaking because they are facing jail time if they don’t. If I was facing jail time I would sing too. Can anyone honestly tell me that everyone on the Red Sox is totally clean? I would like to know what the trainers and coaches from Fenway would be saying if they were facing the same penalties.
Let’s also not forget the conflict of interest with the Mitchell report. Sen. Mitchell has had a distinguished career of public service. That being said, how can someone who sits on the board of directers of a Major League team (Red Sox) be conducting such an investigation? By right, I would be surprised if Senator Mitchell were not a Yankees hater. Another reason why there were so many New York guys on the report. Curt Says he has no problem with Senator Mitchell’s integrity. I am sure Mitchell went into this investigation with good intentions, but there really should have been a totally independent entity conducting this investigation.
Another inherent problem with the report is that the players that were named were not the end of the list. The list is only the tip of the ice berg. And now the players that were named are guilty until to proven innocent. They have no recourse. They have no way to clear their names. In the court of public opinion, they are guilty. And that is wrong.
I must say at this point that I am no lover of Clemens or Bonds. I am more that just upset about Andy Pettitte.
Curt Schilling should calm down with his edicts. I would bet my life that his team is not as clean as we would be led to believe. The Red Sox are not t